Author Topic: Estimating  (Read 11920 times)

Offline blackwolf

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Re: Estimating
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2007, 11:38:41 AM »
Hey Kenny, I have a pickup with a cap on it does that make a difference?  I should have bought an all wheel drive Astro van but could not afford it.....do you still hate me?     ;) ;)




rmichael,

great point about GC's, that is why I refuse to bid the competition, my price is my price it seems it's a double edged sword, if you do repaints with high end customer's who can afford your prices you may have to deal with difficult client's, in dealing with some GC's you may have to deal with difficult GC's and not get what your worth. it's the good and bad about owning your own business.

Offline DavidHenshaw

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Re: Estimating
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2007, 07:31:43 PM »
What is a "pickup truck painter". Is that somebody that paints pickup trucks. Or is that someone who paints for a living and does it out of a pickup truck. Or is that an ambiguous phrase that could mean anything to anybody.  Just asking.

Here's one for you. I've seen big trucks filled with guys pulling around thousands of dollars worth of lawn equipment. I've seen smaller trucks with a couple guys with less equipment. I've seen automobiles with a lawn mower sticking out of the trunk. But one day I saw a man walking down the street. He was pushing a beat up mower and lugging a cheap worn out weedeater. He looked shabby and was obviously walking from job to job. I think it's a mistake if we disrespect anybody.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 07:43:58 PM by DavidHenshaw »

Offline ProWallGuy

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Re: Estimating
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2007, 08:18:00 PM »
when you charge by the hour you limit your income/worth because you can only work so many hours.

Funcolors nailed it right there. For example, the thread I posted recently about a mural I hung. It took me right at 3 hours. Now, if I charged only an hourly rate (IE $60), I take home only ($180). Sorry, I can't afford to start my truck in the a.m. for that. My time/expertise is worth much more than that, plus I have to pay taxes out of that, and recover my overhead expenses. How's this for a pricing strategy: Price= 10% labor, 10% materials, 80% knowledge/experience.

Someone above said they charge $20 per hour. With all due respect, that is what is killing this industry. There is hardly no way to charge that, and pay taxes, and justify overhead expenses, and make even a crappy, poor living. Seems we are plagued with many, many great tradesmen, and very few businessmen. I suggest to anybody that if they want to do anything for a living, learn to run it like a business. Do us all a favor, and buy some books, take some classes, whatever, but figure out how to charge the right price, or become one of the many businesses that fail every year. Or, drag down the rest of us who DO run a legitimate, tax-paying business by trying to compete with the low ball pricing.

And yeah, I drive a pickup too.  ;D

Offline rmichael

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Re: Estimating
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2007, 09:18:02 PM »
I think Kenny was referring to "Blue Jean Painters" or PINOs.. most of which happen to drive pickup trucks... All present company excluded....  ;D
« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 09:52:59 PM by rmichael »
Pro Painter 30 years ~ Down East Coastal NC

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Offline ProWallGuy

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Re: Estimating
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2007, 09:38:11 PM »
Yeah, I figured that. I prefer the 'station wagon bandit' label myself.  ;D

And I apologize if I sounded harsh above, but the truth shall set you free.  ;D ;D

I think I'm cranky because I'm came down here to Atlanta GA to do a job, and assumed the weather would be fairly comfortable. When I left StL, it was about 15 degrees. It is freezing here too!!! Reckon I need to head further south to be able to shed my thermals and parka.  :'(

Offline kenny

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Re: Estimating
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2007, 10:35:37 AM »
I probably used the wrong term.  I was referring to the guy who is a splash and dash painter. No shop, works for cash, works way too cheap, does not plan for the future, will be bankrupt by fall, etc.
I drive a pick up truck but I still take care of the business end of painting.
Did not mean to offend anyone.

Vin

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Re: Estimating
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2007, 10:56:27 AM »
None taken here Kenny .

The first 2 years I was painting I had a toyoto Tercel hatchback, I pulled the back seat out to fit what I could and the rest went in the passengers seat  :o

Sometimes that beaters back bumper was just about scraping the road, but you know what I NEVER had a single problem with that vehicle, it was GREAT on gas a little cramped at times and yeah, I got laughed at but I was glad to have her.

I finally sold the car after buying a 86' toyota 4x4 and I actually kept her for about 6 months but the insurance was taking to much away from me. She must have been really sad me selling her because she broke down that week on the guy that bought her and she never ran again, I still feel bad selling that car LOL.......

sorry got off topic here just throwing my 2c in. dont want anyone feeling bad around here unless of course they do something intentional hurtful, then my cyber wrath comes down :o

I think i'm going ot have a tough time , at times I really value myself too high I like making $500 a day just MY wages, I do often make that but I know the bigger jobs I may not get close to that , with employees, taxes, insurance , workers comp and all that overhead probably be lucky to make $100 a day, if thats the case i'll go back to my old job if they'll have me,  ;)

Jared

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Re: Estimating
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2007, 11:29:04 AM »
Quote
I think i'm going ot have a tough time , at times I really value myself too high I like making $500 a day just MY wages, I do often make that but I know the bigger jobs I may not get close to that , with employees, taxes, insurance , workers comp and all that overhead probably be lucky to make $100 a day, if thats the case i'll go back to my old job if they'll have me, 

Sounds like it might be time to do a market analysis, bro...  What you need to do is assess your "target market" - those customers who will gladly pay your higher rates are the ideal market.  THESE are the customers to focus your energy on (and advertising budget).  After some time of focusing on this market, they will start gravitating towards you - all it takes is a few good clients who pass along your info as referrals to others they know.  In 6 months, you could be making your highest rates ever.  Just remember - from the market's perspective, your lowest pricing sets the benchmark - so be careful not to give out deals that are too good, others might end up expecting the same deals...  and since the majority of the market also sees lower rates as a sign of a lesser-quality contractor, be sure not to sell yourself short.  This can lead to lower income levels across the board.

The key is to stick to your guns.  You might not get as much business in the meantime - but the business you WILL get will be better jobs for better pay.  In the long run, it always seems to pay off.

Offline Artisan J

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Re: Estimating
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2007, 02:41:45 PM »
wow, thanks all for the responses to this highly discussed topic of estimating!

I have been doing a whole bunch of research recently on estimating and have come to some conclusions.

It is easy to estimate jobs by sq. footage and stay within the market "standards" if you don't want to make alot of money!

It is a little more difficult to estimate a job by production rates adding in materials and additional prep as needed and make a decent amount of money!

It is very easy to estimate a job by your competition's pricing that the customer said was your competition's price and make very little money.

So, anyways. I'm in the process of making a software program for my estimating systyem that basically gives me a price for everything just by square footage! It has made my life a whole lot easier recently.

I think the best method is by production rates divided by ACTUAL square footage of the work surfaces multiplied by the hourly rate to charge which covers labor prices and add for additional prep work needed and add for overhead and profit on the job. I feel this is the most accurate. The amount of prep, price of materials per job and pickyness of the customer changes on EACH job and therefore a sq. ft price for actual sq. foot work surfaces is inaccurate as well as heated floor sq ft price!

So, there.. ;D
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