Author Topic: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?  (Read 19676 times)

Offline Artisan J

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WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
« on: February 05, 2007, 12:07:17 PM »
Ok, I get this lead for an interior house-the house sold for 550,000$ recently-anyways, I get the lead, I do the bid and the guy shows to me only HALF the rooms he wants painted and I give him the quote. The quote is a VERY good price and he tried to talk me down to about half the original price. I tell him if they buy ALL the paint then I will do the job for that price but only if they buy all the paint. Well, a month later and around the time they said they wanted to have us do the work they have me back out to look at everything and they add the rest of the house-about 6 rooms total-walls, ceilings, trim, doors, casings etc. I give them a price of about 2000$ extra for the add ons and they tell me that that is UNACCEPTABLE! Ok, I can understand the phrasing a little "pricey" but unacceptable? Come on... So, anyways, he says he will pay 600$ more for the rooms and that they are buying all the paint so I should be willing to give them another discount on top of the 35% I have already given!

So, the question is, would you take the job seeing that you have NO work lined up because it is the middle of winter or would you say F/U and rather have no work then more than likely loose some money on the job overall? Oh, by the way the price originally with the discount was 2600.00$ for a master bedroom, two addtl bedrooms, 3 hallways, a small foyer 1 story, a living room, a mud room, another living room, a sun room with 18 foot high walls and a kitchen ceiling and one more bedroom-trim, ceilings, walls!

Total price he wants to pay; 3200.00$ Fair? or Unfair?
"God loved the world in this way; He sent His only first born son into the world that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life!" -John 3:16

Offline kenny

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Re: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2007, 12:34:03 PM »
Your first mistake was letting talk you down on the price.
As long as the house is totally void of furniture, I would consider doing it since you will already be there for $2600.00 and he is paying for all materials its not that much additional work to go ahead and do the other rooms. $600 seems a little cheap but he put the screws to you once and is doing it again.
Right now I would jump on that job I am broke and just started my contracting business. Of course I am in East Texas and painting goes cheaper here.
He probably will be a customer from hell in the long run tho.

Offline Artisan J

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Re: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2007, 12:43:30 PM »
You are absolutely correct as far as that goes-I did make a mistake in getting talked down. The price was fair and acceptable but he is cheap. Oh, did I mention he was cheap? : )

Thanks for the reply!
"God loved the world in this way; He sent His only first born son into the world that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life!" -John 3:16

Offline rmichael

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Re: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2007, 02:00:47 PM »
ArtisanJ,
Unfair and you will probably never get it.
IMO, You should NEVER let a client talk down your price. If he does there is no end to it, I would have told him that he could save $600.00 and paint the extra rooms himself.
This guy is taking advantage of you inability to say no, and I can almost guarantee that he will find a way to cause you to lose money on the job.
I'd tell him to stick it and get a slop jock or do it himself.

Sorry for the rant but folks like that really chap my hide...  >:(

rmichael
Pro Painter 30 years ~ Down East Coastal NC

"Hell Son, It's always been about the work."

Offline DecorativeWalls

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Re: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2007, 02:47:17 PM »
Artisan,
that's a bummer and the last call would be one you really need to think about as far as any other income (ya-know paying bills , just the normal everyday living things, etc) you may have coming in.   

If it meant that I "really" needed the money to survive getting bills paid, etc. as mentioned above,  I probably would go ahead and  BITE THE BULLET AND DO JUST THIS ONE.

otherwise,  I would stick to my grounds and tell the homeowner whose house just sold for $550,000,  he probably needs to find someone else to do his work.    I mean "come on"  here they buy a home for that kind of money and then expect to get everything they want done for less, which would not just be you,  it would probably be anyone they deal with.

Now, I have on occasion when I am the same person doing other work at a later time for the same customer, I will give them a discount, but this is only for repeated customers.

I think once you get started on this job,  you will find this person may knit-pick at everything you do.  geez,   just the higher walls is enough to say no,  not to mention he will more than likely go out and brag about how he got such and such done for this price from a painter by the name of Artisan, and you may find in the future some of these people may just be people he has spoken to and they might just want a discount from you also.

Lets face it,  when it comes to a plummer or someone coming out to do repair work on something for someone- they have their labor charges and by cracky they ain't cheap, and the customer doesn't seem to buck at all, but when it comes to a professional painter - people want to try and nickel/dime you to death and get a quality professional job done for nearly nothing.

So,   unless I really really needed the money,  I would just hold my ground and say NO.
good luck.  :)
 

Offline Artisan J

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Re: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2007, 03:58:14 PM »
ok, the latest on this job...

I give him my final revised (for the fourth time) estimate for the interior of his house. Some of the rooms his wife said that she could paint the baseboards after we're gone. So, I give him the bid totaling 3200.00$ for a WHOLE freaking house! This is the deal of a life time. Man, it's like I'm painting for free here.

Anyways, he gets the contract via email and calls me back. I'm thinking to myself, alright we're good to go here. It is as plain as day. I paint your house and you pay me the agreed price that YOU set. I guess some people just want it for free. He says-and I quote-"the baseboards are not on the quote" and I told him his wife said that she would do them. Ok, he says, and he goes on to ask me what i think about doing them all without charging extra, would that be ok. I asked him what he did for work. He said "i'm a physician"-and so I ask him what he would think if his customers did not pay him for his work. He said that is not what he is doing now. I said "So, if you don't pay me for the painting I do for you is that called painting for free?" and he said -that is open to intrepretation!!! What? SO, I told him thats it and we are not doing any of the painting at all!

He paid 555,000.000$ for his new house and he is a physician and his wife does not work with no kids and two brand new cars and they can't afford 4000.00 worth of HIGH QUALITY PROFESSIONAL PAINTING? What the crap? This industry is a scary, crazy place at times and honestly, I think I want out. I love it but I hate it too!

Thanks all for your input-greatly appreciated!

Artisan J
"God loved the world in this way; He sent His only first born son into the world that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life!" -John 3:16

Jared

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Re: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2007, 04:08:12 PM »
Keep in mind that every industry has to deal with people like this.  Unfortunately, it seems to be human nature...  there is always that percentage of the population who will behave like this.

Best bet is to grow a thick skin and learn to live with it.  The key is being able to identify this kind of "problem customer" *before* you sign a contract...  so, from that perspective, you handled this one quite well.  ;)

Just don't let it get to you.  It's part of being your own boss.

Offline MiTm

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Re: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2007, 05:44:40 PM »
I think it's a "window" on how the profession is viewed(by a small majority). Some folks still harbor the dillusion that "anyone can paint."
We have all re-painted these blunders. And it still irks me somewhat how a client can own an expensive home loaded with expensive furniture and then squabble about what amounts to the cost of 4 tires and a tune-up for their Mercedes.

I agree that this personality type will "be on the lookout" for further confrontation, anything to prove to themselves that "they were right" in their assessment of you or the job in general.

When I encounter this personality I tread carefully. I bring them in on all that I do: Why I'm doing it, so that they understand up-front. And I repeat myself frequently.
"Each is the Architect of their own Joy and Sorrow"

Offline ProWallGuy

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Re: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2007, 06:06:34 PM »
In a nutshell, I'd tell him to F/O.

Really, it would be more like:

Thankyouforcallingprofessionalwallpaper&painthaveanicedayCLICKBUZZZZZZZZ

Offline nabira

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Re: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2007, 06:36:56 PM »
I'd rather sit at home with no job and no money to pay bills than working for such client. Man, how are you going to make any money for all that work. My price on a job like what you discribed is much more than that.
Trust me, this guy can make it impossible for you to make any money on the job, if not loosing.

Good luck,
I paint sparrows yellow! I also sell canaries to pet stores!

Offline kenny

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Re: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2007, 07:46:47 PM »
When you have no money for food, electricity,or the phone you will do just about anything.
I am there right now. I am thinking about taking jobs like this just in the hope of feeding my family for a few more weeks.

Offline DavidHenshaw

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Re: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2007, 08:01:14 PM »
There have been a bunch of great replys to this but I'd like to add my 2 cents.

You have to be real careful with someone like this. A signed contract is an absolute requirement. The contract will call for a payment of no less than 20% of the total contract amount when you show up to start working or you don't unload any equipment. Also, with this person I would take the check to his bank, not your bank, and cash it and then go back and start working. Sounds extreme but he's showing lots of red flags. The contract would also call for progress payments. If the progress payments aren't made you pull off the job.

Any other arrangement and you're making a mistake.

Vin

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Re: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2007, 08:54:37 PM »
Depends what i'm living on, if it's bean and rice and no gas in my truck i'd do it, but this guy sounds like an absolute jerk so in this case I might just keep eating beans and rice and catch the bus.....

Offline kenny

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Re: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2007, 09:14:23 PM »
There have been a bunch of great replys to this but I'd like to add my 2 cents.

You have to be real careful with someone like this. A signed contract is an absolute requirement. The contract will call for a payment of no less than 20% of the total contract amount when you show up to start working or you don't unload any equipment.

Any other arrangement and you're making a mistake.

I would have to have at least 50% up front.
Then go with progress payments for sure.
ps. make sure your contract is at least 12 pages to cya.

Offline Tallman

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Re: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2007, 02:09:40 AM »
The only thing worse than not getting a job is getting one and losing money.  OK, so it's hard to actually lose money when your a one man show but if you can make more at labor ready you should be doing that.   If that home owner gives you that PITA vibe run like heck. 

I had a guy tell me this summer that my price was "more than I was wanting to spend" and I already bid his house low.  I told him my offer stands if he changes his mind, he found sombody that would go lower, but I was off painting houses that were easier for more money.  You see he wanted to pay, "Less than I was wanting to earn!"  ;)
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