Author Topic: My airless has a horrible spray pattern, why?  (Read 41112 times)

Offline offthewall

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My airless has a horrible spray pattern, why?
« on: April 17, 2007, 08:36:59 PM »
I don't spray much at all so I don't really know the technical terms for parts and why they don't work properly.  All I  know is that I do not have a nice fan pattern coming out of the gun.  Its not so bad coming out of the middle but the outside edges are more of a streaming pattern.  I've tried several different sized tips, some new and some used but with the same effect.  I took the whole gun apart and cleaned it thoroughly, replaced the filter screen etc. and that hasn't helped either.  I've adjusted everything on it that is adjustable and it hasn't made any difference.  When I spray straight water it fans perfectly, but paint is always a different outcome.  Should I replace the whole gun?  Any help would be appreciated.  -Matt

Offline jackpauhl

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Re: My airless has a horrible spray pattern, why?
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2007, 08:46:05 PM »
Generally that pattern is due to low pressure for the paint you are trying to spray. On my sprayer if i shoot acrylic and have someone turn my pressure down while I spray I can replicate what you mentioned. Nice and smooth with a line on both ends of the fan pattern. I never experienced that pattern any other way.

maybe someone else can chime in with a tip (no pun)!

Offline Chip McCheckellson

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Re: My airless has a horrible spray pattern, why?
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2007, 11:47:22 PM »
What model sprayer are you using and what tip sizes are you experiencing this with?

Heres a recent question i asked on the forum: http://www.painterforum.com/yabbse/index.php/topic,1302.0.html
« Last Edit: April 18, 2007, 01:31:24 AM by Chip McCheckellson »
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Vin

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Re: My airless has a horrible spray pattern, why?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2007, 01:00:15 AM »
Low pressure with a 5/15 tip shooting latex will finger the more I raise the pressure the less it fingers.

If I use a 5/13 tip theres alot less fingering.

If I use a 4/15 theres little to NO fingering at low pressure but the spray is too fine.

Now mostly all I shoot in my rig is latex what kind of material are you shooting Matt, the tip and filter   has to  go along with the material.

And guns do wear out mines 3 years old and worn out it just doesnt seat right anymore  with the handle and i really have to snug it down hard for it not to leak around the handle and the head of the gun where it screws together. As far as internal wear i'm not to sure they do on the inside might see if theres a kit for your gun and try that also.

« Last Edit: April 18, 2007, 01:23:55 AM by Vin »

Vin

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Re: My airless has a horrible spray pattern, why?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2007, 01:23:36 AM »
Something else i found

The amount of paint and how thick it should be is determined by what the specification is from that paint company. The sprayer manufacturer determines spray tip settings, determined by what type of paint is to be sprayed.

Thin Coatings

Stains    009-011
Varnish    011-013
Lacquer    011-013
Acrylic Urethanes    011-013
Oil Base Paints    011-013
Enamels    011-015




Thick Coatings

Acrylic/Latex Paints    015-017
Block Fill    017-021
Epoxy    015-019
PVA Primer    015-017
Elastomeric    019-021




These are examples and reflect a range of different materials. Every paint manufacture will have products that are thicker or thinner than there competitors. Always look to the airless pump manufacture and your paint supplier for suggestions.



Ideas and basic considerations when choosing a airless spray tip size.

    * The 3 numbers used to describe a tip size, example 517, refers to the fan size and the orifice size. The fan size of a 517 is 10 inches wide, one foot from the surface being sprayed. The first number is always ½ the actual fan width. The last 2 numbers refer to the actual size of the orifice. These numbers represent thousandths of an inch.

      Example, 517 is .017 inches. With a constant fan width, a larger orifice size will apply more paint. An example is a 515 has an orifice of .015 inches and a 517 has an orifice of .017 and applies more paint in the same amount of time. Remember the smaller the orifice the less material will be applied.

    * Spray tips wear out with use and this will change the fan width and orifice size. The fan will become more round and smaller as the tip wears out.

      A 515 could become a 417 after 50 gallons or less of material sprayed. If you need to spray your entire house and your tip is already a little worn, it would be best to buy a new airless spray tip. A worn tip can be used for primer or finish coats that will be back-rolled.




Recommendations

Consider the width of the surface to be sprayed. Deck railings are thin, 4 inches or less so there is no need for a wide fan. A 211 tip applying exterior deck stain will have a fan of 4 inches and give you great control.

Another consideration is the type. 2 types of spray tips exist, these are flat tips and reversible tips.


    * Flat tips do a good job and are the cheapest. These are available in many sizes, but require the use of a special tip housing and cannot be reversed to clear a clog. A needle can be used to clear most clogs.

    * Reversible tips are the currant standard for professional paint sprayers. When these clog turning the tip 180 degrees and pulling the trigger can easily clear them. The clogging material is forced out by the pressure contained within he gun.

A good combination of spray tips for general use would be a 311 for fine finishing and a 515 for production work.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2007, 01:34:44 AM by Vin »

Offline Chip McCheckellson

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Re: My airless has a horrible spray pattern, why?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2007, 01:30:44 AM »
http://magnum.graco.com/products/M_Pages.nsf/Webpages/QuestionsandAnswers

On that page there is a link to a pretty thorough 42 page manual on spraying by Graco under the question "How do I spray paint using an airless sprayer?"

Also, as a former professional auto body painter, it covers most, if not all the techniques i used in the detail-oriented spraying of autos to get even, full coverage, which even as a new house painter, i can tell will come in handy doing flat surfaces, gloss, painting in a darkened/darkening room, etc.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2007, 01:32:16 AM by Chip McCheckellson »
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Vin

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Re: My airless has a horrible spray pattern, why?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2007, 01:33:34 AM »
I was just looking for that chip thanks.

Offline Chip McCheckellson

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Re: My airless has a horrible spray pattern, why?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2007, 01:10:25 PM »
Glad to help  :)
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Offline Workaholic

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Re: My airless has a horrible spray pattern, why?
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2007, 07:40:36 PM »
What kind of spray rig do you have? Fingering is often caused by the guard. Now not knowing what kind of rig you are using and what material you are spraying makes it a bit harder to asses. Could be you are using to big of a tip for your sprayer could be you are using to small of a sprayer for the material. If you changed the guard and pattern is still off. Either get a gun rebuild kit, takes less than 3 minutes to install or get a repacking kit for your rig, takes about 45 minutes for a novice to install. Or you could take your rig to a service tech and have him repack it for you.
Sean

Offline jackpauhl

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Re: My airless has a horrible spray pattern, why?
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2007, 10:17:57 PM »
Chip, I'm curious with your experince in auto work, what setup are you using for trim work? I have a couple rigs but primarily use a 440i with a Graco SG3 gun and 210 or 211 tips for shooting non-reduced acrylics at half pressure, I use 311 for smooth doors, like steels, fiberglass etc. I like the 210 tip, I shoot mostly wider trim packages, 3 1/2" casing and 5 1/2" base.

Offline offthewall

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Re: My airless has a horrible spray pattern, why?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2007, 03:28:55 PM »
I've got a Titan 440xc that I bought used.  It had been re-packed and serviced right before I bought it so its good to go as far as thats concerned.  I'll have to try turning the pressure up a bit, I've always kept it right in the middle no matter what tip I use or what I'm spraying.  I've got a lot to learn as far as spraying goes.  I asked the guy in the paint store about it fingering and he was telling me I had a worn out tip.  That was a Titan #517 and he told me to go with Titan's 413 to do doors, shutters etc.  Didn't make any difference if you ask me but maybe I didn't pay close enough attention.  The best tip that I've come across so far was the cheapy that my buddies Wagner came with.  It seems to work well on almost anything- atleast what I've done. (not sure of the size of hand) Definitely got some good info off this post!

Offline Workaholic

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Re: My airless has a horrible spray pattern, why?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2007, 06:43:47 PM »
I've got a Titan 440xc that I bought used.  It had been re-packed and serviced right before I bought it so its good to go as far as thats concerned.  I'll have to try turning the pressure up a bit, I've always kept it right in the middle no matter what tip I use or what I'm spraying.  I've got a lot to learn as far as spraying goes.  I asked the guy in the paint store about it fingering and he was telling me I had a worn out tip.  That was a Titan #517 and he told me to go with Titan's 413 to do doors, shutters etc.  Didn't make any difference if you ask me but maybe I didn't pay close enough attention.  The best tip that I've come across so far was the cheapy that my buddies Wagner came with.  It seems to work well on almost anything- atleast what I've done. (not sure of the size of hand) Definitely got some good info off this post!
440xc is a solid spray rig. I use a 211 for jambs and casings and a 311 for doors, and 517 for ceilings. I would have the pressure all the way up, you will need to move quicker though. replace the guard and turn your pressure up. As far as tips go i like to use the offbrand titans and the graco rac 5
Sean

Offline jackpauhl

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Re: My airless has a horrible spray pattern, why?
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2007, 07:05:14 PM »
Sean, what are you spraying that you crank it up? Just curious. A graco guy told me to turn the pressure down for those FF Fine Finish tips 2xx, thats why I do no more than 1800 with acrylics. I did try turning up the pressure but only led to wasting paint and tons of overspray.

I posted some more info on how I do trim and doors with an airless along with some photos I shot today obviously provoked by this thread. You can click any photo to enlarge it. http://jackpauhl.blogspot.com/


Offline Workaholic

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Re: My airless has a horrible spray pattern, why?
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2007, 08:01:50 PM »
I do new construction, trim, ceilings, not the wall spraying type though. I like your blog link. I have been teetering on the fence over the radius 360. I have heard good things about them and nothing negative.
Sean

Offline Chip McCheckellson

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Re: My airless has a horrible spray pattern, why?
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2007, 04:59:07 AM »
Chip, I'm curious with your experience in auto work, what setup are you using for trim work? I have a couple rigs but primarily use a 440i with a Graco SG3 gun and 210 or 211 tips for shooting non-reduced acrylics at half pressure, I use 311 for smooth doors, like steels, fiberglass etc. I like the 210 tip, I shoot mostly wider trim packages, 3 1/2" casing and 5 1/2" base.

JackPaul, sorry, just saw your post. Well, as far as interior goes, i've only sprayed trim with a 440i and its default gun and i believe a 311 tip at probably 80%-90% pressure. With exterior doors using exterior paint, i've only used a 411 tip at 80% - 100% pressure. Im still learning so i keep up the pressure to minimize the chance of problems and redo's. As someone worried for the environment ( and i would think as a smart painter (wannabe in my case)), i will always seek to spray at the lowest pressure but havn't had many opportunities to experiment . I'd love to try smaller tips to see what results i can get. As a general guideline, you always want the most atomization for a smooth finish. Obviously lots of variables come into play. One im curious about how far from the gun are the paint droplets truly the most atomized for a given pressure, is it one foot, like the distance i've seen recommended for holding the gun from the substrate or maybe a little closer, at least with smaller tips? 

For anyone interested:
One thing i'd do is consistently follow proper spray technique guidelines(see below) . Along with the obvious benefits, this will minimize variables so when you encounter, say, heavy orange peel on an interior door you'll have a better idea for the reason it occurred. It can also help the learning process. Right now im on a blow-and-go crew who does care, but is still very much in the learning phase.

Techniques i recommend adhering to rigidly for detail work or when not back-rolling.

Spraying at consistent speed (for the substrate, paint, temp, etc)
Keeping the gun perpendicular to the wall
Spraying corners at a 45 degree angle and when spraying the wall, triggering off just short of the corner, still moving the gun. Since the gun is an on/off flow just before triggering off ill be twisting the gun toward the direction of movement, "feathering" the paint and further minimizing the chance of a "hard line".


I in no way validate the above ramblings, its 3 o'clock in the morning!


« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 10:53:20 PM by Chip McCheckellson »
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anything