Author Topic: A bit of a rant  (Read 16656 times)

Offline RTQ

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A bit of a rant
« on: July 15, 2007, 12:14:32 PM »
Well, so far it hadn't happened to me yet, but it looks like I might get stiffed for two of the jobs I did in June. Both are houses that are for sale and I was hired to make them more merchantable. Sure glad that I got a materials deposit up front so I didn't actually pay to donate my time on these jobs. I know that most if not all businesses have a certain amount of AR that gets written off each year, just a little curious on what other people have done in this situation and what is a "normal" amount of write-off for someone in our line of work?

Jared

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Re: A bit of a rant
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2007, 12:46:47 PM »
Stick to contracts for every job, and don't be afraid to hire a lawyer to help you enforce those contracts.  This policy can all but eliminate those non-payers.

the PAINTSMITH

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Re: A bit of a rant
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2007, 07:42:40 AM »
You can continue to bill, adding surcharges once a month (15% sounds about right), and ultimately make their lives miserable by submitting them to a collections agency. Most businesses need their good credit and will pay before going that far. My wife's done it twice in her business (accounting), and in both cases a check was in the return mail...

There's a process by which you turn them in to collections, you need to give them some fair amount of time to pay up. My wife waited over a year, but hers was an extreme situation.

Call up your local credit bureau. If they wind up collecting for you, they'll get around 40%, but hey, that's money you were about to write off, eh?... ;)

Offline RTQ

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Re: A bit of a rant
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2007, 07:07:05 PM »
Thanks for the advice guys, I appreciate it. Unfortunately I didn't use a contract for either of these jobs. I am not sure, but I wouldn't think a collection agency would be able to do anything if there wasn't a contract. The reason for no contracts is that I knew both of these customers prior to doing these jobs and had actually done some painting for one of them and was promptly paid that time. This time it was an investment house he is trying to flip and he has a couple others on the market as well. I think he may have gotten a little over extended.

Offline Lynjowoman

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Re: A bit of a rant
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2007, 09:27:08 PM »
RTQ

Tell them you are going to take out a contractors lien on the houses. They can not sell them if there is an outstanding lien on them until the lien is paid. You have no contract but do you have any proof you did the work? Maybe their name on an invoice where you purchased the supplies? We always have a job name on all paint invoices at ICI where we get our paint. Just the threat my make them pay. In over 20 yrs. we have only been stiffed on 2 jobs. Turning them over to a collection agency doesn't always work. Here in NC all they have to do is threaten with a lawyer & the collection agency will drop the case. We found this out the hard way. Never did collect from the sob.
 Good luck.

Lynjo
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Offline RTQ

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Re: A bit of a rant
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2007, 10:13:42 PM »
Thanks Lynjo, and Jared and Paintsmith as well.  I visit this forum much, much more than I post and I must say that as well as offering useful and professional advice you all seem to be top-class people as well. It looks like I might actually collect on one of the jobs, but being in business for myself I have learned not to count chickens before they hatch. Sadly I didn't put a job name on any of the invoices despite the the helpful folks at Miller Paint offering to do so. I always thought that was just to help with the internal bookkeeping. Do you suppose several emails discussing the job would constitute proof of the work being done?

Offline rmichael

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Re: A bit of a rant
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2007, 10:25:35 PM »
Do you suppose several emails discussing the job would constitute proof of the work being done?

Yes, any form of recorded communication between you and the client can be helpful, especially if their response alludes to the fact that you actually were doing or completed the job in question.

Good luck with it... and remember Contracts will keep everyone honest, at least that's the theory ....  ;)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2007, 10:28:31 PM by rmichael »
Pro Painter 30 years ~ Down East Coastal NC

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the PAINTSMITH

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Re: A bit of a rant
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2007, 07:44:38 AM »
Contract or no, you can inquire to the credit bureau. If you did the work and kept records of your billing and receipts you probably have a case. The lien idea works also, unless you signed a lien waver at some point (almost every general I ever worked for demanded it).

It doesn't hurt to make a phone call and learn a bit more about business practices...

Offline RTQ

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Re: A bit of a rant
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2007, 12:07:01 AM »
Thanks for all the help everyone. I have gotten myself a bit more educated about the laws and am using contracts and getting deposits on ALL of my jobs.  I waited for a bit to post my follow-up because I was still working on those customers and I finally got paid in full on both jobs.
Thanks again all!

Vin

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Re: A bit of a rant
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2007, 08:05:26 PM »
Congratulations and good luck just got payed on my first contract ever yesterday :)

Offline rcpainter

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Re: A bit of a rant
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2007, 07:06:59 PM »
There's a process by which you turn them in to collections, you need to give them some fair amount of time to pay up. My wife waited over a year, but hers was an extreme situation.

Paintsmith,
I would like to know what that process is if possible. Thanks

RTQ,
Just for the info, I use contracts for everything. Some how I've still managed to remain unpaid on three jobs in the last three years. I'm in the process of serious legal pursuit on two of these projects and I am confident I will prevail. However in retrospect I know of five others that I would have been in deep s**t without a contract. I also learned a $10,000.00 lesson (no kidding) about inadequate contracts and license laws when subcontracting from another subcontractor. I highly recomend you research business laws every chance you get. It will save you a lot of trouble in the long run. It is unfortunate, albeit realistic that we as self-employed businessmen have to go to such an extent to cover our assets. Its worth it in the long run though IMO.

These are some dynamite folks to talk to as you can see. Good Luck!
Royal Crest Painting is a fully licensed and insured painting contractor in the state of Florida. With ten years experience, we offer many solutions ranging from drywall finishes and texture, to custom homes, to commercial roof coatings.
Feel free to contact for a written estimate within 24 hours.

the PAINTSMITH

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Re: A bit of a rant
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2007, 08:22:33 AM »
RCPainter; Call your local credit bureau. They'll line you out on the process.

Offline rcpainter

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Re: A bit of a rant
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2007, 02:16:18 PM »
Thanks Paintsmith.

Non-paying bastards Beware> ;D >:( :P ;D...
Royal Crest Painting is a fully licensed and insured painting contractor in the state of Florida. With ten years experience, we offer many solutions ranging from drywall finishes and texture, to custom homes, to commercial roof coatings.
Feel free to contact for a written estimate within 24 hours.

the PAINTSMITH

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Re: A bit of a rant
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2007, 09:01:55 AM »
The crux of turning a customer in to collection is that NOBODY wants a negative mark on their credit report, considering the new priority credit ratings have taken in the last twenty years...And if you don't plan to see your money anyway, you shouldn't miss the 30+% that credit bureaus charge...

In every case for us, the customer paid up once they got the notice that collections were going to become involved...They hate that... 8)

Offline Paint Mode

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Re: A bit of a rant
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2007, 10:23:03 PM »
  I've had some of these people as well. When the situation comes up, they're trying to screw you. Naturally, you should be looking for how to screw them as well. Most of the time, these are the same people that you spend a week finishing a basement with electrical, plumbing, etc being completed....... and you realize, there wasn't a permit on the front door (because these are the same people who don't get them).

  Let them know that a simple call to the city inspector will have thier basement torn back up to check the work, along with the associated fees they didn't pay in the first place. BAAAM, check in your hand. lol  ;D

  If they call your bluff, then call the inspector, and then go through the processes mentioned above. The no permit thing has never let me down.  ;)

 

anything