Author Topic: WTF!!!  (Read 8221 times)

Offline MPPainting

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WTF!!!
« on: January 18, 2009, 09:15:13 AM »
I painted some stained doors a couple of years ago and now there is a "reddish" stain coming through the paint?  I was over their house looking at some other work when I noticed.  I had the customer sand the doors first, he almost removed all the stain.  I then put one coat of cover stain on the entire door.  Then two coats of BM Regal SG where put on top of that.  I'm just wondering if anything like this has happened to anyone before?  Maybe I should have used BIN?  I am going back to fix but I just want something to tell the customer.

thanks

mike
Michael P Darnell Jr
Michael Phillip Painting LLC
www.michaelphillippainting.com

Offline BrushJockey

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Re: WTF!!!
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2009, 10:20:38 AM »
Sounds like tannin bleed to me. Inside or out? Do you know what kind of wood the doors are made of?

"It would be ludicrous to think I'm new to this, I know this, this is what I do"  ( Prince and Geo Clinton..)

Offline MPPainting

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Re: WTF!!!
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2009, 10:25:28 AM »
The doors themselves were pine, interior. They have been in the house for 30 years?
Michael P Darnell Jr
Michael Phillip Painting LLC
www.michaelphillippainting.com

Offline BrushJockey

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Re: WTF!!!
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2009, 10:29:21 AM »
Bin will for sure stop it, the hard part about fast dying bin is to leave no brushmarks. Spray can might be a way to go.
"It would be ludicrous to think I'm new to this, I know this, this is what I do"  ( Prince and Geo Clinton..)

Offline rmichael

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Re: WTF!!!
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2009, 07:22:57 PM »
The Cover Stain should have held it, but I have had tannin stains blow through solvent based Kilz ( over time) ..  :o   I don't think it is anything you did wrong.
I agree with Brush, a spot prime with shellac ( BIN ) should do the job.. and make sure all six sides are sealed ( top and bottom edges )

« Last Edit: January 18, 2009, 07:27:07 PM by rmichael »
Pro Painter 30 years ~ Down East Coastal NC

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Offline jackpauhl

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Re: WTF!!!
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2009, 08:51:53 PM »
I'm surprised to hear stain bleeding through Cover-Stain. That's odd.

Were the doors stained only prior to primer?
How soon after stain were the doors primed?
How soon after primer were the doors finished?

Offline decoman

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Re: WTF!!!
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2009, 08:46:04 AM »
We had tannin bleed on cedar fences bleed thru Cover stain all the time.. and have since gone back to a slow dry oil which seems to seals the bleed better. I would use BIN as well but on fences outside bin doesn't hold up over time being shellac..
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Offline jackpauhl

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Re: WTF!!!
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2009, 10:21:52 AM »
Its a mystery. For... I dunno... 10-12 years I primed 30-60 ft of cedar rail and spindles on every house (hundreds) and painted them white. I never once had an issue with Cover Stain Oil-base not blocking tannin. I wonder if that has something to do with the age of the wood prior to priming it.

I can only imagine the testing process Zinsser went through before they dicided to put blocks tannin on the label.

Offline decoman

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Re: WTF!!!
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2009, 10:25:29 AM »
I have never really had any luck with quicker drying oils on cedar. Its harder to find the slower drying ones these days...
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Re: WTF!!!
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2009, 10:35:56 AM »
Application technique is integral to blocking potential bleed with an oil primer. If pores and grain aren't completely coated and sealed, your time and money have been wasted. This is why back-brushing is so important.


Offline decoman

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Re: WTF!!!
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2009, 10:39:16 AM »
Application technique is integral to blocking potential bleed with an oil primer. If pores and grain aren't completely coated and sealed, your time and money have been wasted. This is why back-brushing is so important.



I agree totally... we brush and roll all of are cedar homes in my area.. I have never sprayed one of them... I also believe that the quality of cedar these days is not what it used to be...

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Decoman

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Re: WTF!!!
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2009, 10:44:57 AM »
Green stock is also a problem. The rush to market can cause all manner of headaches, from warping stud work to green log siding spitting off a finish and bleeding sap all over the house...If it has to be there yesterday, I stress that there are no guarantees, implied or otherwise.

Offline rex

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Re: WTF!!!
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2009, 09:03:31 PM »
I have had problems with this in the past also. It is mostly on older homes that the doors were stained with a red mahogany stain. The mahogany stain is very difficult to seal, it bleeds through very easily. What we used to do was prime first with oil based primer/sealer, then use BIN as a second primer/sealer, then paint with the finish coat(usually oil base semi gloss)  This usually did the trick.