Author Topic: Paint Price Point  (Read 21419 times)

Offline wje

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Paint Price Point
« on: April 21, 2009, 08:49:00 AM »
Hey guys, my question is what are your trade prices like? I am pretty much exclusively an ICI guy but the odd time stray to BM. I know at BM I get $10 off moorstyle and BM Collection... but it is still nearly $100 for 2 gallons... At ICI my price for most mainstream lines is about 45% off retail.... It leaves me with a lot of room for markup. I generally still pass on a 5-10% sale to my customers but sometimes still chrage the retail price. This is a good money maker for me, as on a decent size job I make anywhere from $2-500 just on paint alone. We got a Sherwinn Williams store just after Xmas and I know they offer some good pricing to tradesmen but I don't think they can top that... So do you guys pass the savings on? Or just charge full pop? Whats the everage trade price for Residential painters our there?

Offline rmichael

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Re: Paint Price Point
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2009, 11:35:38 AM »
I kinda look at the contract as a total package, I don't break out materials and labor in the customers contract and I don't mark up the materials for the bottom line. Simply put I only consider what I pay for the job's materials and the labor costs involved... but that's just me, if the material markup boosts your profit margin... go for it..  ;)

EDIT I do charge a handling fee for materials usually about 20%
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 11:38:26 AM by rmichael »
Pro Painter 30 years ~ Down East Coastal NC

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Offline mankaw

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Re: Paint Price Point
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2009, 01:58:56 PM »
I hope we get a lot of replies on this topic. I don't seem to making as much money as I could be. Think I'm a little bashful about my bids.

Offline wje

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Re: Paint Price Point
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2009, 02:35:46 PM »
I should state that when I say I mark up my paint, I have never charged more than the paint itself retails for(ie. ICI dulux may sell for $39.99 here, say I get it for $30 I still charge $39.99) I find that to the home owner they aren't losing anything, if they want to buy it great, but they will be paying retail prices. Also If a customer insists' that they supply the paint, and I run out, it is up to them to go get me more, which i don't like as most often my customers work and are away all day. I tell them this upfront and it is rare that they agree to supply the paint themselves. I also insist I supply the paint and that way I am not sucked into using crap I cannot stand using (mostly the thick crap that is slow as mollasses to work with, flings off the brush, and sprays like crazy). I have a great relationship with my paint store and off the top of my head I know they have gotten me at least $10-12000 in residential repaints in the past year. I always bring the girls in there coffee and donuts and treat them with respect with no unrealistic expectations from them. They are the best colour matchers I have come across and treat me amazingly. If only every paint store could run aswell as mine does for me... our jobs would be a lot easiar.

the PAINTSMITH

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Re: Paint Price Point
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2009, 03:27:30 PM »
Just remember, if you mark it up, you might be in violation of state law if you don't charge sales tax (and subsequently pay it to the guv'nuh).

It's all in the verbage, though...

Offline Georgie Wood

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Re: Paint Price Point
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2009, 06:33:12 PM »
Most of the times it's the ole, "All materials required to complete the work as described above are included in this estimate". But as was said, even though I do mark up the prices a bit to cover the travel time and money, etc. the customer still pays less than they would if they purchased all the materials themselves.

The job i'm starting tomorrow illustrates how customers who insist on buying there own materials can end up paying more. Pardon me while I vent...

I had done some work for them(My Sister-in-law and her husband  ::) in the past, and gave them an estimate for doing additonal work. Evidently the price was more than they wanted to spend, and they decided to do the work themselves. Then came the message on my answering machine...she had obviously been in tears, saying, "we realize now all the hard work you did, we tried to do the rest ourselves, but the popcorn ceilings are presenting a huge challenge. Please give us a call". So, I called them and arranged to meet with them within a half hour(I was going out of town the following morning and they would be leaving town prior to me returning from my trip). Anyway, i'll try to jump to the chase. They had a five gallon bucket of (crappy) ceiling paint on premises, and wall and trim paint. So I told them to go to home depot to get some Kilz "Odorless Oil Primer" before they left town. Instead of getting the primer, they gave away the ceiling paint(which I had told them was inferior paint), and did not go get any primer. Upon my return they called and told me I could get started when my schedule permitted. And, "Oh, we gave away the ceiling paint. So just get some paint and primer and save the receipt for us....my husband is a real stickler for numbers." I was thinking, jeese, here we go again"...these people have been pains in the ass to deal with. So i'm supposed to finance their paint job, and then they will reimburse me at cost? Of course, I usually just include the paint in my estimate and collect a deposit, but they already had most of what I would need there on premises, all I needed was oil primer. Not only that, but I had told them to pick up four gallons of oil primer, although I needed roughly four and a half gallons. But I had 3/4 of a gallon in stock and was willing to just contribute that to the project...no sweat. I finally tell them to call Duron and order the materials(ceiling paint and primer) and I will pick it up.

Primer cost per my initial suggestion(Home Depot: 4 Gal. of Kilz Odorless Oil @ $20 per gallon = $80

Cost of Zinser Odorless from Duron: 5 Gal. Zinser @ $35 per gallon = $175

Potential savings for the customer = $95

Duron gave them my price for the ceiling paint. I wish they had charged them retail.

Perhaps I should not have done so, but I couldn' resist, I pointed out that it is not uncommon for a contractor to mark-up the cost of materials, but the advantage of the contractors discount, knowledge, and willingness to shop around often/ultimately results in savings for the customer.

Some people are just hard headed.

Side note: Given that "Odorless Oil Primers" are a relatively new breed, I would not feel comfortable mixing the ($20) Kilz product with the ($35) Zinser product. I'm not sure if I was just trying to teach them a lesson or whether I would have under different circumstances been quite as umcomfortable mixing the two different manufacturer's products....perhaps it was a bit of both.

Opinions on mixing Kilz odorless with Zinser Odorless?

I'm not sure if I feel better after venting, but I appreciate that there is a place where I can do so. ;D

BTW, the job also includes wallpaper removal...over drywall. They tried to start that work too...by scoring with a paper tiger...should be interesting. I told them when I met with them, before I realized what they had done, that using a paper tiger could damage the drywall, and would perforate the paper such that it would be virtually impossible to tear off the top layer of wallpaper in pieces more than match book size. Then I run my hand across the wall..."Oh, you already scored the paper."  :-X 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 06:38:05 PM by Georgie Wood »

Vin

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Re: Paint Price Point
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2009, 10:25:22 PM »
Paint at my cost goes into the bid, after figuring how much money I want to make I add 20%, that bout covers marks ups and unseen difficulty's.

My KM guys try there hearts out to get me work they know there gonna get a steak dinner when they do  ;D

Offline BrushJockey

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Re: Paint Price Point
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2009, 10:50:44 PM »
Mark up on it's own is kind of funny, for me. I don't break out the paint costs in the bid, they are included at my price. then I figure what I need to be viable.  If I haven't made "mission" , I adjust as needed. Has nothing to do with material mark up. That is just part of overhead.
"It would be ludicrous to think I'm new to this, I know this, this is what I do"  ( Prince and Geo Clinton..)

Offline Georgie Wood

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Re: Paint Price Point
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2009, 01:38:16 AM »
Yeah, I think that was what I was saying. However, if the materials have already been purchased by the customer and provided on the jobsite, less overhead, in a sense. But after the estimate has been submitted and the customer accepts but says they have changed their mind and want you to now purchase/provide the materials and supply a receipt for those materials to receive penny for penny reimbursement at a later date, they are in essence expecting you to absorb any overhead. Mind you, I don't think most people would expect such a thing...but, you know, family.  ::)

With the prices of materials going up, i've lately started to list the price(s) of materials on sellect estimates to illustrate to the easily sticker shocked customer just where their money is being spent. And yes, I mark-up those prices. That mark-up generally goes to purchasing odds and ends...misc. supplies...sand paper/sponges, patching compound, tape, plastic/paper masking material, rattle can of primer, maybe a new brush that I will use on their job...and some left over to put in the gas tank, and a few cups of coffee....consumed prior to comencing work on their project, of course. But all and all it still costs them less than it would if they went and purchased the materials themselves. Good deal, I would say. Although I do include a "misc. materials and supplies" catagory also...perhaps a redundancy. Dobedo, they still end up saving money.

Will have to consider the wisdom of listing materials costs with mark-ups after what Paintsmith said about taxes. I've been striking out on a fair share of the estimates I have submitted lately. In the current(or probably any) economic climate charging a tax isn't likely to improve my success rate.

Pity the fool who marks-up a tax rate!

Offline chrisn

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Re: Paint Price Point
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2009, 04:16:36 AM »
Opinions on mixing Kilz odorless with Zinser Odorless?


Bad idea! :o

But then again I would not use any Kilz product.

Offline BrushJockey

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Re: Paint Price Point
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2009, 06:49:05 AM »
chrisn- besides you're bias against Kilz, any real thoughts on why it's a bad idea? There both a modified oil , right? I mix leftover paints all the time for colors or primers. Seldom do similar bases have compatibility problems.
 You have any depth to that response?
"It would be ludicrous to think I'm new to this, I know this, this is what I do"  ( Prince and Geo Clinton..)

Offline BrushJockey

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Re: Paint Price Point
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2009, 06:54:10 AM »
Georgie-  To be honest I do sometimes on a T/M job give a material cost. I usually list all items including a catagory called Misc sundries ( which is all that tape,caulk ,expendable equip etc.) and then give on price for all. I can back it up with receipts if needed, but I also have to have a cost for material used from my "stock" . cover that stuff that way.
"It would be ludicrous to think I'm new to this, I know this, this is what I do"  ( Prince and Geo Clinton..)

Offline wje

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Re: Paint Price Point
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2009, 07:16:32 AM »
Pity the fool who marks-up a tax rate!

Well I am quite safe... I have to charge tax anyways.. I don't look at it as a bad thing but as a good thing as it re-insures and doubters that I am running a legitimate biz. just my 2 cents.

the PAINTSMITH

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Re: Paint Price Point
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2009, 07:56:56 AM »
20% for "overhead" is the safest and most legitimate form of markup there is, IMO. If we were to list the phone charges, office costs, fuel and sundries separately, it would average out. I have driven 50 miles for materials, sometimes that 20% compensates, sometimes I make a small profit by it, but I always charge it.

Offline ProWallGuy

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Re: Paint Price Point
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2009, 10:06:28 AM »


EDIT I do charge a handling fee for materials usually about 20%
And that my friend is a mark up.  ;)

 

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