Author Topic: airless sprayer tip selection for interior latex  (Read 11391 times)

Offline rex

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airless sprayer tip selection for interior latex
« on: June 22, 2009, 07:37:59 PM »
Since I purchased my airless sprayer I have used it mainly for spraying exterior siding and other exterior surfaces, using mainly standard sized tips (Graco RAC 5) .13 , .15 and .17. I want to try and spray some residential factory primed steel doors with the airless and wondered what size tip you guys would use?  Im going to try a highly recommended paint called "Majic Diamond Hard" for the first time also. Its an acrylic enamel. I know there are fine finish tips available from Graco(RAC X) and wondered how well these work and what size to buy . I think they are available in .08, .10, .12 and .14 orifices. Since theye are a fine finish tip, should I get a smaller size or stick with what the paint maufacturer says on their label(.13  or .15)?

Offline FoilEffects

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Re: airless sprayer tip selection for interior latex
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2009, 08:19:49 PM »
I have done cabinets, doors and trim packs with 4:14 and the sprayer turned down to produce a fine spray.  You get about a 8" overlap and by overlapping and then changing direction I have gotten perfect results.  Personally I love SW's all surface primers and coatings.  They have both a oil and water version that is very good.  I have also been playing around with The Gripper by Glidden and that stuff is tough as nails on many surfaces!

Good luck.
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Re: airless sprayer tip selection for interior latex
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2009, 01:19:40 AM »
I haven't had good luck with fine tips, whiz rollers work great  ;)

Offline rmichael

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Re: airless sprayer tip selection for interior latex
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2009, 10:31:49 PM »
Hi Rex, Who makes that paint? I have sprayed ICI's Dulux Diamond with good results. As Foil suggested a 4:14 or 13 should not require any reduction of the paint, but lower the pressure or you will be blowing way too much.. If you use a FF 8 or 10 you will have to reduce the paint some and add an extender, I have also sprayed cabinet doors using ICI'sDiamond with a top cup gravity feed gun, the main problem when squeezing latex paint that much is keeping the spray "wet", an extender/conditioner helps a lot...  if required, experiment with the viscosity until it matches the tip or rig you are using..
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Offline RTQ

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Re: airless sprayer tip selection for interior latex
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2009, 11:03:07 PM »
I have been using Benjamin Moore Iron Clad latex on a lot of doors lately.  I add a little PPG extender and spray it with a 440i using a 3.10 tip.  It also brushes well IMO.

Offline Workaholic

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Re: airless sprayer tip selection for interior latex
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2009, 06:30:51 PM »
I spray a lot of enamel with a 310
Sean

Offline jackpauhl

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Re: airless sprayer tip selection for interior latex
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2009, 07:58:43 PM »
Rex. I suggest a RacX FF310 for smooth surfaces. Steels and fiberglass. You will need to learn that paint and what you can get away with for millage. I'd stay off and move quick to sample.

FF210 works nice of fiberglass with deep colors and deep bevels. Again stay off the door but you can shoot much closer with FF tops vs others.

FF209 and FF210 works great on trim.

I'd shoot smooth and embossed Masonite with a Rac5 311

hope that gives you a good start 

Offline Crestwood

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Re: airless sprayer tip selection for interior latex
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2009, 06:35:46 PM »
Rex. I suggest a RacX FF310 for smooth surfaces. Steels and fiberglass. You will need to learn that paint and what you can get away with for millage. I'd stay off and move quick to sample.

FF210 works nice of fiberglass with deep colors and deep bevels. Again stay off the door but you can shoot much closer with FF tops vs others.

FF209 and FF210 works great on trim.

Jack, I've heard that spraying some latex (Duration, for example) through small tips causes "shearing" - you're forcing large paint particles through a small opening. This can change the paints properties, including sheen. My SW store advises not to use anything smaller than a x15 size to avoid shearing.

Have you noticed any change in performance with small orifice size? Do fine finish tips address this in their design? How does pressure factor in to this?  Other thoughts or comments?

Offline jackpauhl

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Re: airless sprayer tip selection for interior latex
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2009, 06:59:45 PM »
Crestwood. I'm on my phone at the moment. Do have some input when I get back. Are you saying SW suggests x15 for (all) paint or Duration? I'm assuming you mean exterior? I never shot Duration Ext with FF.

Offline rmichael

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Re: airless sprayer tip selection for interior latex
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2009, 07:48:36 PM »
Rex. I suggest a RacX FF310 for smooth surfaces. Steels and fiberglass. You will need to learn that paint and what you can get away with for millage. I'd stay off and move quick to sample.

FF210 works nice of fiberglass with deep colors and deep bevels. Again stay off the door but you can shoot much closer with FF tops vs others.

FF209 and FF210 works great on trim.

Jack, I've heard that spraying some latex (Duration, for example) through small tips causes "shearing" - you're forcing large paint particles through a small opening. This can change the paints properties, including sheen. My SW store advises not to use anything smaller than a x15 size to avoid shearing.

Have you noticed any change in performance with small orifice size? Do fine finish tips address this in their design? How does pressure factor in to this?  Other thoughts or comments?

I think it depends on the individual paint, the fillers/compounds in some high builds (like Duration exterior) do not fair well if sheared through a FF orifice...
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Offline jackpauhl

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Re: airless sprayer tip selection for interior latex
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2009, 10:07:12 PM »
I guess im confused as to what the issue is here on shearing. Im assuming you are talking about shear-thinning and if thats the case then there is always a workaround and wont effect the outcome of a dried product. There is no question in my mind a FF tip provides a nicer finish. Sure it shears.

Obviously Duration will stay thicker if shot with x15 vs FF but FF is exactly that, a fine finish.

Example: Duration shot on 1 steel with factory primer, 1 fiberglass door and one previously painted door. The fiberglass cant be shot in the same manor as a primed steel. This is the same case on pre-primed trim. often the inside jambs have more absorbent primer and door-stops do not. Paint wont run on the inside jamb but it will on the stops if not careful. You wont catch me shooting a door with anything more than a x11.

FF needs low pressure in most cases, thats my experience. 1800max usually works on a variety of trim paints. FF tips wear fast but thats a price i gladly pay.

Offline rmichael

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Re: airless sprayer tip selection for interior latex
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2009, 11:14:19 PM »
Probably the best practice is to match (spec)the tip to the material that is being sprayed, however, an FF tip can be successfully used with a variety of trim paints even when the paint specs recommend a larger tip.

It seems obvious that an FF tip should not be used with a high build paint simply because of the wet mil requirements. High builds are intended to be applied in a heavy coat, using an FF tip could have an adverse affect, and indeed change the properties of the coating.
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Offline jackpauhl

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Re: airless sprayer tip selection for interior latex
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2009, 02:21:02 PM »
yeah rmichael pretty much sums it up. This subject is like opening a can of worms. It involves way too many variables like shear viscometry, quasi-2-D flow fields, phenomenology, toroidal vortexs, standoff distance, fluid-dynamic phenomena of wavy-sheet breakup, various polymer thickeners, spray entrainment, spray impingement, inertial droplet impaction etc., some of which beyond my scope of knowledge but I have a good understanding of it.

And its not fully understood in the first place so its a work in progress. I think that what maybe the SW rep might be getting at is to closely keep the cans content in tack by shooting with a x15. Cant argue that. There is truth in that. Because really, even shooting 2 coats of say Duration with a FF wont be the same as 1 coat shot with x15 but the finish will be superior with FF tips. In theory.  ;)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 02:25:31 PM by jackpauhl »

Offline Crestwood

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Re: airless sprayer tip selection for interior latex
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2009, 02:58:35 PM »
Without swerving into "toroidal vortexs"  ;), I did some checking and see that SW PC specs allow a 311FF tip, but SW Home Interior, BM Aura, BM Satin Impervo Latex all spec a 315 or so, but no mention of a FF tip.

Sounds like those that use the FF tips for interior trim like the results. Is there a real, in-the-field change in the product? Say, a door is sprayed with a FF tip and the door frame and trim are brushed with the same material? Or is the whole shear discussion mostly a test lab sort of thing?