Author Topic: Bad - Worse - Behr  (Read 31339 times)

Offline LJ

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Re: Bad - Worse - Behr
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2010, 10:40:13 PM »
Oh you aren't missing anything.    I just think that most modern day pros using modern day paints are used to painting a certain way.   We don't really thin paints much anymore and when we do, we may add XIM or some other high quality conditioner.   So, when somebody tells a bunch of pros not to use XIM or any conditioner and to thin the paint with a beer bottles worth of water, it sounds strange.  Maybe Behr is special though, and that is why we need to do these special things that we are not used to when using it. ;D
I agree, Carl, on everything.  However, I think his point was reducing by up to 16 ounces of water.  My point was simply that  it is not uncommon for up to 16 ounces of water reduction (or more) to be recommended by manufacturers for various reasons.  

EDIT: Just for the record, I am not a closet Behr fan.  ;)  This thread just got me curious about what other companies recommended regarding water reduction. 
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 10:53:39 PM by LJ »

Offline rmichael

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Re: Bad - Worse - Behr
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2010, 11:20:26 PM »
Oh you aren't missing anything.    I just think that most modern day pros using modern day paints are used to painting a certain way.   We don't really thin paints much anymore and when we do, we may add XIM or some other high quality conditioner.   So, when somebody tells a bunch of pros not to use XIM or any conditioner and to thin the paint with a beer bottles worth of water, it sounds strange.  Maybe Behr is special though, and that is why we need to do these special things that we are not used to when using it. ;D
I agree, Carl, on everything.  However, I think his point was reducing by up to 16 ounces of water.  My point was simply that  it is not uncommon for up to 16 ounces of water reduction (or more) to be recommended by manufacturers for various reasons.  

EDIT: Just for the record, I am not a closet Behr fan.  ;)  This thread just got me curious about what other companies recommended regarding water reduction. 

I agree that 16oz+ of water per gallon is not uncommon for spraying, depending on the paint, for brushing water may "lossen up" the paint but it does not provide "flow" like a conditioner does. My question is why does Behr recommend against their use when conditioners are routinely and successfully used in so many other brands..  ???
Pro Painter 30 years ~ Down East Coastal NC

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Offline LJ

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Re: Bad - Worse - Behr
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2010, 10:26:17 AM »
Quote
My question is why does Behr recommend against their use when conditioners are routinely and successfully used in so many other brands..  ???
I'd like to know that too, especially because I used a liberal amount of Floetrol (out of XIM) in Behr premium interior enamel two weeks ago without any trouble.  It improved brushability and leveling.

Offline DecorativeWalls

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Re: Bad - Worse - Behr
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2010, 05:42:12 PM »
I still prefer to use a thicker viscosity paint as opposed to using a thinner milkshake type. 

For the Behr Support person, all the times I have used Behr premium as a base for decorative finishes I ALWAYS have used XIM extender.  It adds just enough to roll out a nice smooth wall.  Never had the issues you mention;   I would however disagree somewhat with the addition of adding the amount of water suggested.  I do know that a paint's dried film can somewhat be weakened from the addition of water and subject to less durability.  It does affect the binder ratio.  IMO water is NOT needed for thinning interior paints, unless when following manufacturers suggested amount for spraying. 

There are some paints that do call for the addition of up to an added 16oz. of extender to their products.  I use one brand all the time.   Maybe Behr is just waiting to come out with its own special extender like some of the other paint manufacturers have and then like the others will tell you "only guaranteed to be used with their products". 

So, all in all when it comes to products- the only person that knows for sure about a particular product is someone who has used it more than once .   When it comes right down to it, we all are going to have favorite products, tools and methods that work for us.  Things that are tried and true and when you have that , it is hard to pull away from.  Someone that has used a product for years can tell you the very minute something has been changed by the chemists.  Again, I don't mind working with Behr interior products , but I will say my limit is only walls.

Offline BrushJockey

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Re: Bad - Worse - Behr
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2010, 05:45:40 PM »
I might be a bit cynical ( oh really!), but I figure a lot of what the can says is for the lawyers and deniability for the mfr. .

 They ( not just Behr, all of them) say don't add stuff because they have no control, and if a problem happens then it is always the painters fault. Which is what will happen no matter.
 So I figure out what works best for me, and  know I'm not calling any rep to back me up.
But each paint works different, so you have to learn that paint.

And another thing I was thinking about- rMicheal is in humid and hot NC, Jake , although now is up freezing with me, cut his chops in the desert of Lost Wages, and here I am in the frozen tundra of MN. Heat and humidity of the day you are working, or inside is there AC, are the radiators hot, etc, all change the equation of what will help.

  That's where a knowledgeable painter who knows the product they are working with is the key. And why we all have preferences because we find the product that fits what we are doing .
"It would be ludicrous to think I'm new to this, I know this, this is what I do"  ( Prince and Geo Clinton..)

Offline DecorativeWalls

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Re: Bad - Worse - Behr
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2010, 05:58:12 PM »
Quote
They ( not just Behr, all of them) say don't add stuff because they have no control, and if a problem happens then it is always the painters fault. Which is what will happen no matter.
 So I figure out what works best for me, and  know I'm not calling any rep to back me up.
But each paint works different, so you have to learn that paint.   That's where a knowledgeable painter who knows the product they are working with is the key. And why we all have preferences because we find the product that fits what we are doing .

Brush,
that's exactly what I said above.  Well, not exactly  ;D  but you and I seem to be on the same page with using and knowing our products of choice and when and where to adjust with what conditions we have before us.

Offline BrushJockey

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Re: Bad - Worse - Behr
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2010, 06:25:57 PM »
I was writing when you we're posting. eerrie, innit?!
"It would be ludicrous to think I'm new to this, I know this, this is what I do"  ( Prince and Geo Clinton..)

 

anything