Author Topic: wallpaper removal  (Read 3644 times)

Offline kenny432

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wallpaper removal
« on: February 15, 2010, 05:09:25 PM »
i am trying to get some advice on paper removal the house is about fifteen years old first i tried dry removal came off easy but took sheetrock paper also so i tried scoring and soaking with (dif) same results then tried a steamer it still comes off easy but takes sheetrock paper the wall was not primed before the paper was hung any suggestions .....

Offline rmichael

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Re: wallpaper removal
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2010, 06:48:27 PM »
Hi Kenny,

It sounds like you have used all the standard methods, unfortunately, there is not much more you can do to ease the pain of removal. As you know the absence of a primer is the cause of the removal problems.

If you are planning to paint, at this point your best approach may be to continue to carefully remove as much paper as possible, apply a coat of "Gardz" primer to seal down the damaged drywall & wallpaper paste, then skim the damaged areas with a light coat of drywall compound, sand and re-prime patched areas. Paint with a good quality acrylic latex paint...

<AS A LAST RESORT>
If removal is causing extensive heavy damage to the drywall you might consider painting over the existing paper by removing ALL loose and peeling paper, cut back the wallpaper seams about an inch on both sides, apply a coat of "Gardz" then skim damaged areas and seam cutbacks. sand and re-prime patched areas. Paint with a good quality acrylic latex paint. 

Best Luck,
rmichael

 
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Offline BrushJockey

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Re: wallpaper removal
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2010, 07:15:00 PM »
rMicheal nailed it. Sometimes you have to cut your losses. If the paper is acting like the "new" sheetrock paper, might as well let it be that. If damage outweighs gain.
"It would be ludicrous to think I'm new to this, I know this, this is what I do"  ( Prince and Geo Clinton..)

Offline kenny432

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Re: wallpaper removal
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2010, 07:21:57 PM »
thanks for your help that sounds like a good plan

Offline CarlThePainter

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Re: wallpaper removal
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2010, 03:17:58 PM »
This is all very true, but I do find sometimes that more saturation can sometimes mean less damage to the drywall.   Sometimes though it is a lost cause of course.   For example, if the walls were primed, one soaking with DIF in a garden sprayer with very hot water is enough.   But, if the paper was hung on raw drywall or unprimed walls, I may do 2 or 3 soakings with a 10 minute break in between before attempting to pull the paper off.  You really can't saturate the paper with a sponge either and using hot water is also very important.

Offline jdmccann

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Re: wallpaper removal
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2010, 01:10:47 PM »
I've heard arguments for/against but I prefer to use cold water.  May take more than one application and a wait whilst the paper soaks but I find the hot water evaporates quicker therefore soaking the paper less.  I have no idea why people think hot water works better?!?!

Offline chrisn

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Re: wallpaper removal
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2010, 05:23:48 AM »
I asked this question( about water temp) to Mike Zikich the owner of Safe and Simple      http://www.safeandsimple.com/  ( he knows a little about removal) here is his response                                           

Chris:

Both paperhangers are right, but I don't think they know why or when.

Water temperature can make a difference.  Usually the hotter the better.  The reason is that heat is transfered to the adhesive USUALLY causes the molecular structure to change.  This action (in the case of wallcovering) is "stirring up" the atoms that hold the adhesive chemicals together.

So hot water ON THE ADHESIVE is better.
Hot water applied to the OUTER FACE is neglible.

Heat transfer through air or solids can vary on the enviroment (i.e. are fans blowing?)  Depending on the wallcovering, using hot water can make a difference, but this is not true of all wallcoverings, examples:

Applying hot water to the outer face of grass cloth.  It would make a difference because the porous surface of the grass cloth readily soaks up any water, thereby, the hot water is getting to the adhesive sooner.

Applying hot water to commercial vinyl does not really help.  Since commercial vinyl is so think, by the time the heat transfers through the vinyl, it is (most likely) cooled to room temperature.

Applyin hot water to prepasted's helps.  Since the paste was laminated to the back of the wallpaper at the factory, the heat transfer is gets to the adhesive a bit quicker.

Living in Southern CA, our tap water is never really that cold when compared to Canada on a hot summer day.  There is probably a 30 degree difference.  With that much temperature difference, it can make removal easier.

Keep in mind that by simply applying water (at any temperature) tends to make most wallpaper adhesive's properties change.  The addition of heat can change the properties further.  Our 603 product is engineered to chemically reactivate most adhesives that are made from natural sources.  Clays, clears, are made of earthly or natural ingredients.

When you  look at water or the above adhesives through a microscope you see what looks like a field stone pathway in your backyard.  Different sized atoms, twigs, gaps, etc.  Water or heat tends to swell the atoms causing them to want to move.

Enter VOV:
Just the opposite occurs when heat is applied to VOV.  It actually gets stronger.  VOV is man made.  The molecular structure (under a micorscope) looks alot like window screen mesh.  That atoms are aligned and in order.  The adhesive is actually not thet great, but the fact that the atoms all line up is what give VOV it's sticking power.

When removing VOV it is best to wet it, then move the fluid around in a swirling manner.  This swirling action is what disturbs the natural alignment of the atoms.

FYI: Have you ever noticed that removing wallpaper from an area that gets a tremendous amount of direct sunlight seems tougher?  It is.  The solar heat gain over a long period of time is continually cooking (and destroying) the chemical make up clay & clear adhesives.  That is why it is nver a good a idea to paper inside window sills exposed to high temperature variations.  In CA, a window sill can reach 100 - 130 degrees in the summer, but cool to 60 in the winter.  That is a 100% +/- change in performance.
Christopher Nelson

Offline rmichael

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Re: wallpaper removal
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2010, 07:10:05 PM »
I vote for a steamer... and not one of the cold ones..  ;D
Pro Painter 25 years ~ Down East Coastal NC

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Offline chrisn

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Re: wallpaper removal
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2010, 04:43:04 AM »
I vote for a steamer... and not one of the cold ones..  ;D

People that use them apparently like them . Not me, in 25 years I used one ONCE and that was enough, way too much work. A garden bug type sprayer and some HOT water with some S&S has always worked for me.
Christopher Nelson

Offline Hangman

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Re: wallpaper removal
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2010, 06:30:52 PM »
I like the sprayer too for speed. I think it was Brush Jockey who posted pics of covering the wall with plastic to hold in the water for a longer soak.......great tip. Sometimes the paper has a pretty sturdy vinyl surface which water just rolls off, this is when a steamer helps. It lifts the face of the paper so you can get to the paper backing. If I'm in a bathroom I'll just put the steam plate in a 5 gallon bucket and let it run to humidify the room while I'm working. A bit uncomfortable but it speeds up the job. The steamer works great for removing border. You can get a little wagner for about $50. As far as hot vs. cold water goes, if steam works best then I would say that hot water works 2nd best.The one thing everyone needs when stripping wp is patience, the longer it soaks the less damage to the wall.
A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest..........

Offline rmichael

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Re: wallpaper removal
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2010, 08:40:24 PM »
As far as hot vs. cold water goes, if steam works best then I would say that hot water works 2nd best.

I agree, while I understand Mike's logic regarding the soak through, I think the fact is that if you can get hot water to the adhesive it helps break it down.
I was just being a little smart a$$ about the steamer, although I have rented a few professional models and gone through a few Wagners in the past for really tough vinyls. I switched many years ago to the garden sprayer. Brush's advice about hanging plastic is a great tip ... hat's off Brush...   ;)
Pro Painter 25 years ~ Down East Coastal NC

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Offline chrisn

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Re: wallpaper removal
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2010, 06:14:30 AM »
and in regards to vinyl( and the water running off it) you can always peel off the face of the vinyl first and then wet the backing, you are fighting a loosing battle trying to soak vinyl paper( that is why they invented the dreaded paper tiger) strip the face first, it works, same for boarders. ;D
Christopher Nelson

Offline Hangman

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Re: wallpaper removal
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2010, 12:06:38 PM »
and in regards to vinyl( and the water running off it) you can always peel off the face of the vinyl first

This is why I first bought a steamer out of frustration years ago, I can't always peel the face off first. Sometimes all you can get is tiny little strips at a time. That's when I used to use "the dreaded paper tiger". Wax on,wax off. Now when I have that problem I use the steamer to lift the face one section at a time. If you start at the top the runoff loosens the lower portion a bit in advance. It's a pain either way and some people prefer to paper tiger but to me it's messy and no matter how hard you try you usually perforate the wall in the process.
A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest..........

Offline rmichael

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Re: wallpaper removal
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2010, 08:05:53 PM »
and in regards to vinyl( and the water running off it) you can always peel off the face of the vinyl first

This is why I first bought a steamer out of frustration years ago, I can't always peel the face off first. Sometimes all you can get is tiny little strips at a time. That's when I used to use "the dreaded paper tiger". Wax on,wax off. Now when I have that problem I use the steamer to lift the face one section at a time. If you start at the top the runoff loosens the lower portion a bit in advance. It's a pain either way and some people prefer to paper tiger but to me it's messy and no matter how hard you try you usually perforate the wall in the process.

I agree, some vinyls will not separate from the backing.. Enter the steamer...  ;D
Pro Painter 25 years ~ Down East Coastal NC

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Offline chrisn

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Re: wallpaper removal
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2010, 05:24:50 AM »
 
I agree, some vinyls will not separate from the backing..

Never had that problem, lucky I guess ;D
Christopher Nelson