Author Topic: NOTICE New EPA Rules April 22, 2010  (Read 33646 times)

Offline rmichael

  • postingpro
  • PF Mega God
  • *
  • Posts: 2406
  • You gotta love it!
Re: NOTICE New EPA Rules April 22, 2010
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2010, 12:09:10 PM »
There are things that really bug me about this rule.

#2, where is the manpower going to come from to enforce this rule?

Enforcement (for now) will depend on someone turning you in, the homeowner, a neighbor, your competition etc.
Once the complaint has been filed they will be obligated to investigate and levy the fines etc. I expect them to make an example of a few unlucky Joes and expect the rest to fall in line.

I also foresee the states and counties grabbing a piece of the pie through permitting, random inspections and enforcement ... I believe that will be the next logical step.

Sorry Carl, you are reading it right, Government, like large Corporations, act without CONSCIENCE. Their first line to you will be "ignorance of the law is no excuse"...   :-\  
Pro Painter 30 years ~ Down East Coastal NC

"Hell Son, It's always been about the work."

Offline LJ

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
  • less work, more family, friends, fun....
    • LJ Custom Painting
Re: NOTICE New EPA Rules April 22, 2010
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2010, 12:13:05 PM »
What is amazing to me is their claim that compliance will only add $65.00 to a painting contract.
That's a pretty bold statement... $65, I wonder how they calulated that.  Seems like a more realistic approach would have been to at least given a range.

I just can't visualize the enforcement part. I feel like I'm reading the law incorrectly because I just can't believe that the government would really fine a one man painter making $60K per year or less $37,500 for violating a law he didn't even know existed.

They can't do that...they just can't.  That would make the news and piss off way too many people directly.   What am I missing?
Exactly!!

Offline LJ

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
  • less work, more family, friends, fun....
    • LJ Custom Painting
Re: NOTICE New EPA Rules April 22, 2010
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2010, 12:17:53 PM »
Enforcement (for now) will depend on someone turning you in, the homeowner, a neighbor, your competition etc.
Once the complaint has been filed they will be obligated to investigate and levy the fines etc. I expect them to make an example of a few unlucky Joes and expect the rest to fall in line.
The whole, people turning you in, thing sounds pretty ugly... like....

Offline Lynjowoman

  • postingpro
  • PF Mega God
  • *
  • Posts: 1422
  • Sometimes the best man for the job.. is a Woman.
Re: NOTICE New EPA Rules April 22, 2010
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2010, 12:21:10 PM »
There has been no type of notification. They should at least have something in the papers & ads on TV & radio or through the paint stores. No notices or anything at the paint stores in our area. EPA is not on the ball with this one at all. I guess they can't afford a stamp or a little advertising. They are waiting to slam you with big fine to pay for it I guess. Most small businesses can't afford these types of fines, they would be put out of business & or in jail. Got to love our Government.

Lynjo
"Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily, this is not difficult."
Charlotte Whitton

the PAINTSMITH

  • Guest
Re: NOTICE New EPA Rules April 22, 2010
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2010, 12:24:26 PM »
I got no notification. If this is "for the children" and it applies to ME, why are they banking on my ignorance?

I'm getting no sympathy from the HVAC guys on other sites, who have been under the government's thumb for years now regarding mold and asbestos. I'm told "It's about time you guys got yours"...Thing is, the asbestos scam created an insanely lucrative industry in itself.

That's just what the government wants; People celebrating ill inflicted on other trades.

There will be black market paint contractors, and a lot of them.

Offline Lynjowoman

  • postingpro
  • PF Mega God
  • *
  • Posts: 1422
  • Sometimes the best man for the job.. is a Woman.
Re: NOTICE New EPA Rules April 22, 2010
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2010, 12:30:29 PM »
If it is such a high hazard why are the home owners exempt? They can sand, knock out wall with lead dust flying with Jr in the crib beside them, no problem.

LJ as for people turning each other in I can see this happening specially the competition or nosy neighbor, waiting to sue the pants off you.

Lynjo
"Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily, this is not difficult."
Charlotte Whitton

the PAINTSMITH

  • Guest
Re: NOTICE New EPA Rules April 22, 2010
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2010, 12:35:55 PM »
Customers will now have a way to get out of paying you for your services.

So there will be no trust, between you and your customers, you and your competition.

Like LJ said, this sounds ugly AND eerily familiar.

Offline rmichael

  • postingpro
  • PF Mega God
  • *
  • Posts: 2406
  • You gotta love it!
Re: NOTICE New EPA Rules April 22, 2010
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2010, 12:45:55 PM »
Yeah, they designed this thing like a well constructed box... no exits and no way out of it..  :-\
Pro Painter 30 years ~ Down East Coastal NC

"Hell Son, It's always been about the work."

Offline LJ

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
  • less work, more family, friends, fun....
    • LJ Custom Painting
Re: NOTICE New EPA Rules April 22, 2010
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2010, 12:56:13 PM »
LJ as for people turning each other in I can see this happening specially the competition or nosy neighbor, waiting to sue the pants off you.
I read an article recently where a painting company was inspected and fined by OSHA (I know, another story unto itself) not because nosy neighbors turned them in, but because nosy neighbors turned in the trunk slammer painter down the street... and while the OSHA inspector was in the neighborhood, he thought he would just drop in on this other contractor as well.  The author of the article had implimented OSHA practices and was still fined because not all practices were impliment correctly (how high you are allowed to use a ladder jack, etc.)  How frustrating to have done your best to follow government mandated procedures just to be inspected and fined even without a complaint being filed.  Imagine now if the fine was for 37 grand (or even much less) which forced you out of business despite your best efforts to be in compliance.  I agree with Paintsmith, I will be calling my "representative" and encouraging other contractors I know to do the same.

Offline CarlThePainter

  • postingpro
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 371
Re: NOTICE New EPA Rules April 22, 2010
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2010, 01:03:10 PM »
There is one bright side to all of this.   If you do get certified, this will put you in a better position than your competition and you can use this as a tool to win jobs on your sales calls.   If you are one of three painters bidding on the same job and you are certified, this gives you an edge.   There are going to be a lot of painters out there not certified.   The only problem is I don't want to pay for certification because then it feels like the government has won.....what to do.

Offline rmichael

  • postingpro
  • PF Mega God
  • *
  • Posts: 2406
  • You gotta love it!
Re: NOTICE New EPA Rules April 22, 2010
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2010, 01:16:22 PM »
The EPA has had years to make this training course available online but the route they took is typical wasteful government fare. The EPA developed the basic course (with taxpayer money) then turned it over to middlemen who dispense it and charge $200 - $500 a pop for the course plus a $300 tip to the EPA just for doing their job...  Hmmmm...
Pro Painter 30 years ~ Down East Coastal NC

"Hell Son, It's always been about the work."

Offline Jake

  • postingpro
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 439
Re: NOTICE New EPA Rules April 22, 2010
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2010, 01:21:36 PM »
As an aside,

If you think this stuff is messed up....

Jake, dude, you know I love ya, but we need to keep this topic specific. It's verboten to discuss politics here, and yeah, I know, this topic is politics, but this is the politics of our trade.

Sorry man, had to off your post. I'll buy ya a Primo sometime, if you ever get the guts to venture farther north than Maple Grove... ;)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 07:34:11 PM by the PAINTSMITH »
The only thing that separates Paint from Pain... Is a t.

Offline Roadog

  • postingpro
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 129
Re: NOTICE New EPA Rules April 22, 2010
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2010, 04:32:38 PM »
So does this include churches? the law or just residential, daycare stuff?

Offline BrushJockey

  • postingpro
  • PF Mega God
  • *
  • Posts: 1683
Re: NOTICE New EPA Rules April 22, 2010
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2010, 04:36:00 PM »
I think anywhere children are present for more than 6hrs/ month or something like that.
"It would be ludicrous to think I'm new to this, I know this, this is what I do"  ( Prince and Geo Clinton..)

Offline Lynjowoman

  • postingpro
  • PF Mega God
  • *
  • Posts: 1422
  • Sometimes the best man for the job.. is a Woman.
Re: NOTICE New EPA Rules April 22, 2010
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2010, 04:38:44 PM »
All residential & commercial properties built before 1978. No exclusions.

Lynjo
"Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily, this is not difficult."
Charlotte Whitton