Author Topic: Another Coat of Primer Needed?  (Read 21208 times)

Offline djlank99

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Another Coat of Primer Needed?
« on: May 25, 2016, 10:17:11 PM »
I am painting oak cabinets and have gone through and prepped them for primer.  Primer used is Zinsser BIN.  I'm finishing off with Sherwin Williams ProClassic (oil-based) paint.  I went through one coat of primer and I cannot decide whether or not to go with another coat of primer based on how they look or if I should move on to top coats.  Any suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated! 

By the way, because of a sale going on at SW, the price of the BIN primer and ProClassic are about the same, so the normal logic of going with another coat of primer simply out of cost-savings doesn't work in this scenario.  Not even sure if there is logic in that anyway if it affects the final look.

Note-Final Color will be Alabaster
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 10:18:49 PM by djlank99 »

Offline mymint87

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Re: Another Coat of Primer Needed?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2016, 10:57:08 PM »
I am painting oak cabinets and have gone through and prepped them for primer.  Primer used is Zinsser BIN.  I'm finishing off with Sherwin Williams ProClassic (oil-based) paint.  I went through one coat of primer and I cannot decide whether or not to go with another coat of primer based on how they look or if I should move on to top coats.  Any suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated! 

By the way, because of a sale going on at SW, the price of the BIN primer and ProClassic are about the same, so the normal logic of going with another coat of primer simply out of cost-savings doesn't work in this scenario.  Not even sure if there is logic in that anyway if it affects the final look.

Note-Final Color will be Alabaster
welcome.....i would hit it again with the primer, just to get the pigment uniform and a little bit more build for sanding purposes.....  that way you can throw on 2 thin coats of finish and come out with a fantastic job.....good luck
I don't do this for a hobby and I'm damn sure I don't need the practice

Offline djlank99

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Re: Another Coat of Primer Needed?
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2016, 11:04:06 PM »
Thank you, I had spent enough time looking for random links online to answer the question but figured a forum like this would be my safest bet.  I was leaning toward the second coat of primer, but didn't want to overkill.  On to a second coat of primer it is then!  Thank you for your reply!

Offline djlank99

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Re: Another Coat of Primer Needed?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2016, 11:10:34 PM »
mymint87,

What grit sandpaper would you recommend for the light sanding of the primer?  I have a few to choose from, but have seen conflicting answers in my research so far. 

Offline chrisn

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Re: Another Coat of Primer Needed?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2016, 02:14:56 AM »
Not to argue with my esteemed colleague but one solid coat of primer is all that you need. I get that the cost is about the same( I would have used Coverstain and not Bin, BIn is too brittle IMO) but it really serves no purpose to add another coat of primer(if the first was applied properly) If you do more research, you will see I am correct. As to the sand paper, 200 or 220.

 Now ,I am sure you are going to put a second coat on anyway but in case others might possibly read this thread, there is another ( and better, IMO) option

Offline djlank99

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Re: Another Coat of Primer Needed?
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2016, 05:09:45 AM »
I went ahead and sanded the primer but am open to suggestions.  I agree the BIN can be too flaky.   IMO it actually dries TOO fast, even though that is a selling point for some.   I was leaning between priming again vs. the possibility of two top coats vs three.  Once I sanded though with 150 paper and a 220 block, I found that some wood was exposed so I am thinking two coats of the primer. Would you guys suggest foam roller or mohair for the top coats?   I am worried about brush strokes being exposed so I purchased some paint additive (penetrol) from HD so I think that will help; however, I can't help but worry about roller and brush strokes for the cabinets.   

Offline djlank99

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Re: Another Coat of Primer Needed?
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2016, 05:14:27 AM »
there is another ( and better, IMO) option

What would your option be?   I am completely new to this, so I am definitely open to suggestions!

Offline mymint87

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Re: Another Coat of Primer Needed?
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2016, 03:26:22 PM »
i suggested another coat because i witnessed some raw areas and was concerned about it because the primer will lock and lift the grain making it possible to smoothen out the grain with sanding, oak is a tight grained wood so there shouldnt be much lifting of the grain but it also gives the pigment a uniform finish..so atleast touch up the dark or raw areas before applying the finishes...applying the finish with a roller i would use a 3/16 inch nap or !/4 inch...i would stay away from the mohair as it tends to leave a corn row so to speak stipple...the key to a smooth finish with brush roller applied water based formulas is applying thin coats...vrs an oil which can be applied thicker and can also be tipped off with a brush after the even application with a roller of a thicker coat
I don't do this for a hobby and I'm damn sure I don't need the practice

Offline mymint87

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Re: Another Coat of Primer Needed?
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2016, 03:29:55 PM »
Not to argue with my esteemed colleague but one solid coat of primer is all that you need. I get that the cost is about the same( I would have used Coverstain and not Bin, BIn is too brittle IMO) but it really serves no purpose to add another coat of primer(if the first was applied properly) If you do more research, you will see I am correct. As to the sand paper, 200 or 220.

 Now ,I am sure you are going to put a second coat on anyway but in case others might possibly read this thread, there is another ( and better, IMO) option
i was going off his pics...i agree with you, but his primer coat wasnt solid...thumbs up
I don't do this for a hobby and I'm damn sure I don't need the practice

Offline chrisn

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Re: Another Coat of Primer Needed?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2016, 04:46:10 PM »
there is another ( and better, IMO) option

What would your option be?   I am completely new to this, so I am definitely open to suggestions!

Coverstain

and do not, repeat do not use a foam roller

Offline mymint87

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Re: Another Coat of Primer Needed?
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2016, 05:28:05 PM »
do not use a foam roller
oops didnt see that, just thought he was talking about mohair vrs regular roller

again i say if you must brush /roll use a nylon/polyester 3/16 (typically comes in 9 inch size) or a 1/4 (6 inch peanut or weenie roller) applying it in thin coat let dry before applying any succeeding coat
I don't do this for a hobby and I'm damn sure I don't need the practice

Offline djlank99

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Re: Another Coat of Primer Needed?
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2016, 08:00:07 PM »
Unfortunately, I had not checked the "notify me of replies" box and I was not patient enough, so I went ahead and began priming with the foam roller.  I actually came back to ask a couple follow-up questions when I found the warning.  The second coat created a uniform coat, but I have a few remaining questions.

1.  What sanding grit is appropriate for this second coat of primer?  I have been hand sanding with a sanding sponge and sanding sheet at 150 grit, but I'm wondering if that is too coarse?  I have 220 and 320 at my disposal, as well as several of the more coarse grit sheets if in fact I'm not using low enough grit. 

2.  While the primer is nice and uniform, I can still see some grain coming through.  No color issues, just grain outline.  While I realize I won't completely be able to get rid of this, do you feel it requires a third coat of primer before moving on to the top coats?  Or would this essentially be a waste of time and money?

3.  Is Penetrol advised for use in what I am doing?  I'm using the SW ProClassic Oil-based paint and found this suggestion on several sites, but I have not seen this consistently advised so I wanted to ask those with experience on the subject.

As far as the foam roller, it was much easier to deal with and less messy than the mohair.  I found with the mohair that it would tend to glob up towards the end of the application.  However, I am now thinking the culprit could have been my amount of paint left out at one time.  On the first coat, I poured as much as I needed for the full application across all cabinets.  Because the dry time of Zinsser is so fast, it could very well be that it simply started to harden in its own pool of paint before I could get to all of it.  This time around, I poured in small batches and would simply refill, so that could have been the solution rather than type of brush.  I do understand that mohair can get into grainy textures more efficiently and completely, so I may have missed an opportunity there.  Will post pics of the second primer results

Offline djlank99

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Re: Another Coat of Primer Needed?
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2016, 08:00:55 PM »
Another pic of second primer coat so that might be able to see the grain I am referring to

Offline djlank99

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Re: Another Coat of Primer Needed?
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2016, 08:21:09 PM »

[/quote]

Coverstain

and do not, repeat do not use a foam roller
[/quote]

I guess my natural question on this is-if I did add a third coat of primer and used Coverstain, would this help to remove the grain that is showing through?  Or at this point would that make much of a difference?  I think you may be right on that being the better option now that I am comparing them directly.  Hopefully I was at least headed in the right direction by not going with Kilz as I usually see recommended.  I saw BIN recommended several times and ultimately I found it listed on a Bob Vila website posting and went with it from there.

Offline mymint87

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Re: Another Coat of Primer Needed?
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2016, 12:18:06 AM »
Unfortunately, I had not checked the "notify me of replies" box and I was not patient enough, so I went ahead and began priming with the foam roller.  I actually came back to ask a couple follow-up questions when I found the warning.  The second coat created a uniform coat, but I have a few remaining questions.

1.  What sanding grit is appropriate for this second coat of primer?  I have been hand sanding with a sanding sponge and sanding sheet at 150 grit, but I'm wondering if that is too coarse?  I have 220 and 320 at my disposal, as well as several of the more coarse grit sheets if in fact I'm not using low enough grit. 
180 should be ok
2.  While the primer is nice and uniform, I can still see some grain coming through.  No color issues, just grain outline.  While I realize I won't completely be able to get rid of this, do you feel it requires a third coat of primer before moving on to the top coats?  Or would this essentially be a waste of time and money?
gotta remember that you are painting a stain grade wood, which is very different than a paint grade, so your not going to be able to get away from the grain without a skim coat of filler and extensive block sanding with a full reprime
3.  Is Penetrol advised for use in what I am doing?  I'm using the SW ProClassic Oil-based paint and found this suggestion on several sites, but I have not seen this consistently advised so I wanted to ask those with experience on the subject.
it all depends on product temperature and since it is field painted or a climate that you have little or no control over ...your climate conditions come into play, that would determine if penetrol is beneficial...usually oils become thinner and flow better but evaporate quicker when the product is heated , like setting the gallon out in sunlight to warm it up... obviously your protecting the paint from getting too cold while you store it for use but if it is cool and your conditions are cool penetrol would be a better thinning agent than mineral spirits
As far as the foam roller, it was much easier to deal with and less messy than the mohair.  I found with the mohair that it would tend to glob up towards the end of the application.  However, I am now thinking the culprit could have been my amount of paint left out at one time.  On the first coat, I poured as much as I needed for the full application across all cabinets.  Because the dry time of Zinsser is so fast, it could very well be that it simply started to harden in its own pool of paint before I could get to all of it.  This time around, I poured in small batches and would simply refill, so that could have been the solution rather than type of brush.  I do understand that mohair can get into grainy textures more efficiently and completely, so I may have missed an opportunity there.  Will post pics of the second primer results
I don't do this for a hobby and I'm damn sure I don't need the practice