Author Topic: Latex v Oil  (Read 5502 times)

Offline rmichael

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Latex v Oil
« on: June 13, 2005, 07:55:20 PM »
Moisture problems almost always go back to the primer/sealer.
There was a time that I recommended primers like solvent based Kilz or Coverstain for just about every project. However,the relatively new Acrylic formulated primer/sealers have come a long way in the past few years and now rival the old solvent based products in terms of "hold out" and sealing power, ICIs "Gripper" comes to mind.
Alkyds can provide a hard smooth finish, it is also true that  paint manufactuers have made no improvements in their residential alkyd based paints in many many years, R&D remains focused on Acrylic and waterborne formulations... with excellent results.
Top of the line Acrylic enamels now offer an easily applied durable finish with the convenience of water clean up and the absence of solvent fumes.
As Bob Dylan once sang "The Times...they are'a Chang'in"

No Offense intended Paintsmith 8)
rmichael pro painter
« Last Edit: June 13, 2005, 08:06:09 PM by rmichael »
Pro Painter 30 years ~ Down East Coastal NC

"Hell Son, It's always been about the work."

the PAINTSMITH

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Re:paint bathroom...
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2005, 07:07:47 AM »
And none taken, rmichael...I understand as well as any professional the undeniable convenience of latex coatings and the development and advances of latex formulas in the past 20 years, makes it an easy call...and in many cases (such as new construction where vapor barrier technology and venting has also come of age) it's the appropriate material.

My business concerns predominately repaints of older homes, 30 years and more. Many of these don't have benefit of effective vapor barriers in kitchen and bath areas, nor do they employ "green" sheetrock, either by neglect of the drywall installer or the misinformed DIY homeowner...Yes, the primer is the main warrior against moisture in these cases, and though I have used Gripper (ICI is my main supplier), I've not yet been convinced of it's superiority over a product that has a proven track record over many, many years.

...Also, as advanced as acrylic latex technology has become, there are still pitfalls, especially where moisture is concerned. I have seen all too often how the acrylic resins will "bleed" down the walls in a high humidity situation where the acrylic is not allowed to cure properly.

No, a lot of advancement has not been made in alkyds recently, and for a couple of very good reasons; Oils and alkyds have been around for a very long time, there is not much improvement left to be made other than Mooreguard style "alkyd reinforced acrylics", and the EPA has seen fit to regulate a lot of very effective and durable materials out of existance in most states, the alternatives NOT better, only safer to lab rats in California...

It boils down to preferance and environment. I have no doubt that in the original poster's situation that acrylics will do fine, but I assess each situation by a rigid criteria that focuses on short-term and long-term results in a high moisture environment. Easily two-thirds of the bath areas I paint nowadays (in Minnesota) are still done in oils...

Sorry to give you the idea that I'm being argumentative, it's not my intent...

Offline rmichael

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Re:paint bathroom...
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2005, 08:25:58 PM »
...Also, as advanced as acrylic latex technology has become, there are still pitfalls, especially where moisture is concerned. I have seen all too often how the acrylic resins will "bleed" down the walls in a high humidity situation where the acrylic is not allowed to cure properly.
Just a note:
Detergent agents are used in the manufactuer of Acrylic paints. Over time these agents will come to the surface and evaporate ( in most cases unnoticed ) during the natural curing process. In cool or very humid environments these agents can come to the surface quickly and even run down the walls in the form of an oily browish liquid. This is called "surfactant leaching"
This is harmless and does not affect the paint in any way. Wiping the walls down with a damp cloth should fix the problem.

 ;)

rmichael pro painter
« Last Edit: June 14, 2005, 10:17:32 PM by admin »
Pro Painter 30 years ~ Down East Coastal NC

"Hell Son, It's always been about the work."

the PAINTSMITH

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Re:Latex v Oil
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2005, 01:46:02 PM »
Oh sure, so now you teach me something new... ;D

Offline rmichael

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Re:Latex v Oil
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2005, 05:01:48 PM »
I first encountered acrylic leaching when it appeared on a job about four or five years ago. As all professional painters know, the first thing you don't want to do is panic which is exactly what I proceeded to do. I called the paint Rep. and demanded that he meet me at the jobsite.
He arrived at the job, took one look at the paint and said "sufactant leaching" to which I responded "Say what?" He explained the phenomenon but refused to stick around and explain to the home owners why their paint was bleeding an oily liquid.
Of course,that task was left to me. :-\

rmichael  pro painter
Pro Painter 30 years ~ Down East Coastal NC

"Hell Son, It's always been about the work."

the PAINTSMITH

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Re:Latex v Oil
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2005, 06:19:57 PM »
Heh heh, yeah, well, I've never called a rep on it, always assumed it was acrylic leaching due to excess moisture before the product had sufficient time to cure, and have always had nominal success wiping the walls down with a frequently rinsed towel...unfortunately I also frequently wound up applying another coat, because 1) The customers almost always panicked that the protective component was being eliminated, and 2) for some reason there was always a slight "ghost" of the runs left behind that could be seen from a certain angle (which was always from the doorway...).

Nuthin' personal, bt I'm glad it's not just me... ;)

Offline rmichael

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Re:Latex v Oil
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2005, 02:17:41 PM »
Most likely the ghosts would have "dried in" over time, however, I do realize that it is often easier to stick another coat rather than deal with the customer's  >:( understandable skepticism.  

rmichael pro painter
Pro Painter 30 years ~ Down East Coastal NC

"Hell Son, It's always been about the work."

Offline perspicuous

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Re: Latex v Oil
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