Author Topic: Advice on application of RL Suede finish  (Read 6485 times)

Jared

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Advice on application of RL Suede finish
« on: July 21, 2006, 12:05:03 PM »
Hi all!

Doing a top-shelf loft apartment/condo downtown, full repaint.

Customer has requested Ralph Lauren Suede paint for one of the bathrooms.

2 concerns I have about this: 

1.  I have never worked with the RL Suede, as I tend to avoid RL paint like the plague (as I assume most of y'all do as well - bucket water covers better  ;) ).  My supplier recommended the use of a Latex Stainer Block brush for the top coat - but RL recommends a std 3" straight brush.  Also, the color change is from a light tan to a mid brown, and I am wondering if I should get a gallon of flat to match the suede color and apply it as a base coat.  I just don't know if the suede will cover in 2 coats, and apparently it cannot easily be touched up or reworked later...  and when one considers the cost of the stuff, as well as the labor-intensive application process - it pays to make sure 2 coats of the suede'll do it.

2.  I am concerned that the suede finish might not hold up against the moisture of a bathroom (yes, there is a shower in this bathroom).  Poor ventilator fan in this bathroom as well (low cfm rating) - so the moisture from a shower will "hang around" for a while.

Opinions?

Thanks, all!

Offline DecorativeWalls

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Re: Advice on application of RL Suede finish
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2006, 12:19:26 PM »
Hi Jared,

Since you mentioned you had not worked with the suede paint,   Are you planning on do some samples first?

Understand you point about working with RL- It is NOT one of my favorites.

Sometimes when paint companies come out with specialty paints ,  along comes all the tools "THEY" recommend you use with their product to achieve best performance,  well , JMO the most of this is "hogwash"- and just sucks you in to buy their tools.  Sometimes just using the ole' brain and being a little creative we can use just ordinary tools or things we have around the house or shop and come up with a fantastic one of a kind finish.    I guess I am one that will always experiment and go outside the box.  Some of the best tools I have used are in the cleaning supply areas/car supplies/outside supplies.     Don't get me wrong, there are some tools that are needed to create  the finish desired.   

Have you already bought the rollers, brush that RL recommends?         If not,  you can use just a plain roller sleeve to get the first rolled coat on.    Another thing you don't have to necessarily have to roll in an up/down fashion.  Try rolling in different directions to erase the linear pattern.     For the brushes-   if you have some older brushes -   this should be fine to work the layering process with.     Even using a wide full bodied cheap chip brush will work as well.   Just have to look for one that has a little more bristles in them .    Even a colorwashing brush will work-   just get one that is not super limp and soft, because of the little gritty granulars in the suede.  I would never use one of my good brushes for this.

I would recommend you getting your base as you mention  close to the finish of the suede.  You can either go a little lighter or a little darker,  just depends on the look you want when you start applying your suede.    Remember,  the suede is a textural material that emcompasses light and the variations of tonal values is what gives suede -  the suede look.

The first rolled coat will look streaky- so don't get to panically.  And keep your texture paint stired often to keep all the little aggregate particles well mixed.    Your next layer or two   will take care of the blotchiness.  Just use your criss/cross--cross hatch x's and feather out the x's-  but don't keep playing around with it- it will start to get thick on you and clump up because of the little beaded pellet like grandulars.     Do the completion of your first layer  and let completely dry.     Stand back and if there are areas you see you want to go back and mottle out or reapply , then do so.  I personally think it looks better with the one rolled coat and two layered coats for lots of texture variation and the way the light hits on the layers .  This way you will see lots of highs and lows in the tones the light catches. Of course,  I imagine it depends on the client's budget.   It may look just fine after the first layered 100% coverage. 

Now,  the suede is NOT the best suited finish for certain rooms that will get some abuse. 
Areas in close contact with certain kitchen duties, water contact, down hallways or walls where a chair could rub against (without the use of a chairrail).   I would probably need to rethink using this in a bathroom where water splashings , especially around a shower / bath surround  without some other barrier there, around light switches being touched regularly, oils, sprays, lotions,.    It does scratch easily and if the final finish is a darker hue , it can show up even more because of the little raised grandulars and the little scratched marred areas do seem to catch your eye.   Lighter colors are not that noticeable.   You can touch it up, but need to try and soften the touch-up back in to where it won't be noticeable.
 
 IMO,  RL suede has never been sold on the quality of it's washability. It is a purely decorative finish.   Suede by nature is a soft delicate surface, and the RL suede gets it soft matte granular appearance by sacrificing the scrubbability part.


Jared, the best thing you could do , -is test, test, test and play and practice on samples first to get the swing of it.

Would the client settle for some other type of finish for the bath?

Best of luck .   
I am sure it will look fantastic when you are finished.   :)


Jared

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Re: Advice on application of RL Suede finish
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2006, 08:08:57 PM »
Wow, what a fantastic reply!  SO MUCH good info in there!  THANKS!!!

OK...

first off - yes, I have bought *SOME* of the applicators by RL - specifically the suede roller sleeves (both 9" and 4").  They were both actually under $3 each, so no biggie there.  ;)  Unfortunately, the 4" roller sleeve has an internal bearing with a RIDICULOUS amount of endplay - so the sleeve actually "rocks" almost 3/4" from side-to-side when mounted on a handle.  Total junk, completely unuseable to "cut in" around doors, and especially at the ceiling...  so I think I'll do my first sample board using a standard 3/8" nap sleeve on a 6" lightweight roller to check how well it applies the suede - if it works out, I'll use that to "cut in" the first rolled coat.

I'll also experiment with a few of my beat-up and/or cheapo brushes on the second and/or third coats for the sample boards, I don't think I'll be using this $20 latex stainer block brush my supplier sold me.  ;)

I would have bought the base to match the suede color sample - but I like your idea of the base being a bit lighter or darker, both to add to the tonal intensity and to make the application of the suede coats a bit easier (to see the coverage as I work).

In the end, I believe this bathroom is going to get SOME suede finish, and SOME satin in a matching color (specifically satin above and around the hot tub, which is set into an "alcove" in the wall - he does not want anything with a higher sheen than satin.)  This would leave me very little sq footage of coverage for the suede, because all 4 walls of this bathroom have a doorway or alcove off of it, and they are all either doored or tiled on the other side of each doorway.  From there, I will just have to show the customer the sample boards, including at least one with a "cut-in" edge so he can see how clean (or not clean) the ceiling cut will be - perhaps at that point he'll rethink the suede finish entirely.  ;)  ANYTHING would be better than working with RL paint, in my opinion.

and again - thank you SO much for your reply!  I will be sure to reciprocate at the first opportunity, whenever it may arise.  ;)

Offline DecorativeWalls

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Re: Advice on application of RL Suede finish
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2006, 05:45:06 AM »
b]Are you using one of the covered end smaller rollers??[/b]

I have picked up a few of those little roller sleeves that wobble before and ya might as well pitch'em,    makes ya think of a drunk person weaving in/out. ;D   

I have another roller sleeve from wooster 4"  where I pop the end out of it and push back into the cage   and this little roller gets right to the ceiling line/corners/baseboards,  without even using a brush to cut in.   The sleeve has the same nap/texture as your regular larger sleeve would have.     Now, mind you this is done with taped ceiling/baseboards because there is going to be other things done to the wall, but this is a super time saver for me.  Roll out your cut-in and then just use your other sleeve to finish.  Having texture on the ceiling,  that's another thing to take in consideration.   

Have you been to the RL website -  they have some video clips for doing this finish  -  you can always tweak it to your own technique and application.

One thing I thought of - since you mention there is going to be  a satin color similar in and around the shower/bath and areas  ;  also you mentioned  (customer- HE) - just another idea that would look as equally nice using the suede -   paint the wall space in the other color he chooses- and come down so far from the ceiling and run a horizontal wide band of the suede around the perimiter of the room,  or   just inside the alcove you mention you are painting the other color-  run a separate band of the suede so far down from the ceiling inside the alcove to have a nice contrast with the alcove color.      Just some other added thoughts.

Another thing you might want to even do - instead of using your roller sleeve for the ceiling edges, etc.   (on the first layer-  just use your cross hatch motion around the ceiling line instead of your roller sleeve-  then come back in with the rolling action of your roller).  Just another thought for you.

Good luck. :)

Jared

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Re: Advice on application of RL Suede finish
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2006, 01:08:05 AM »
Follow-up:

Third coat went on today.  Very happy with the results, thanks to your most excellent advice, DecorativeWalls!  I believe no one should attempt the RL Suede without being armed with your pointers and info mentioned above.

I ended up using the (rather cheap) Home Despot Performance Neglect brushes (That's Home Depot Performance Select, for those of you who don't speak my sarcasm) for the brushed-on coats.  Mostly used a 3" straight brush - but I found certain areas (like between door trim and a tight inside corner of the room) were easier to use a 2" straight brush.

The customer actually insisted on the suede in the entire bathroom - even around the tub alcove and in the water closet (little toilet room).  I suppose I'll have a bit more work from this guy in the near future with all the touchup he's gonna need in those confined spaces.  ;)

Now, a few points worth reiterating, for those who might read this thread before attempting the RL Suede for the first time:

1.  This job will absolutely KILL your brush if you are not careful - I found the bristles started clumping badly after a couple hours of use, so regular brush cleaning was necessary.  Without a good brush comb, it would have been a hopeless prospect to try and get thru the job with one brush - the bristles just clumped too badly to get unclumped without a good comb.  I agree that just about any brush'll do - but I would personally avoid any brush that tends to shed bristles (like some poorly-made chip brushes, and even the expensive latex stainer brush my local dealer recommended for the suede).  I would NOT want to have to stop to pick bristles off the wall while trying to maintain a long wet edge of paint!

2.  Maintaining a wet edge is very important - but I found this to be easier with the Suede than with, say, the RL Metallics (which dry much faster).  I found that the wet edge was most critical on the first rolled coat - even the slightest vertical or horizontal line left around a doorframe or window "cut" REALLY shows up.  (Luckily for me, I learned this on my sample boards, not the customer's walls.  ;) )  Maintaining a wet edge while brushing was rather easy, as the Suede does take some time to dry.

3.  The Suede is a very "wet" paint - it is rather thin compared to typical paints.  (It is a watery, gritty soup.)  This means more spatter, and potentially more masking tape bleed - so do not count on masking tape for your trim work.  Dropcloth all exposed floor due to spatter.

4.  Any imperfections in the walls will REALLY stand out in Suede.  Do a good job on your surface prep and minor repairs!  (However, the Suede effect still works on textured walls - looks great on skip troweling, at least.)

5.  As mentioned above, the 4" RL "cut-in" roller is only going to make it look like the painter was drunk on the job...  I rolled the whole first coat with a 6" lightweight roller, armed with a sleeve and nap which closely resembled the size and consistency of the RL roller sleeve.  Worked out just fine.

That's everything I can think of that seems worth mentioning again.

Tomorrow I will have my digital camera with me, so I'll snap a few pics of the Suede bathroom to attach to the end of this thread.