House Painter Forum

Professional Painters => Professional Painters and associated Trades Forum => Topic started by: offthewall on June 21, 2007, 08:47:24 PM

Title: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: offthewall on June 21, 2007, 08:47:24 PM
I take damn good care of all of my supplies no matter what they are or what I paid for them.  I've always heard that if you treat your brushes well they will last for a long time. Well, I do treat them well, rinse them out thoroughly after every use and store them the way they should be.  I'm pretty much a Wooster and Corona guy and it seems like no matter how well I take care of them I can only really get about 4 to 5 solid repaint jobs out of them before they start to get all weird on me.  When I say repaint jobs I'm talking fairly good sized projects that require a good amount of use out of the brushes.

 When people say a long time what do they really mean, 1 month, 2, a year?  For me a long time would be between a month to 2 months of steady work 5 days a week.  It's not that I mind buying new brushes cause I rather like the new brush results, but how in the heck do you make it last that way longer.

I've heard of detergents, fabric softeners, brush conditioners- I think I've tried most of em atleast once or maybe twice with the same results as just plain hot or cold water.  I know this has been talked about on here before but in all honesty, how long or how many jobs can you expect to get out of 1 brush?  I use 3" angled nylon/poly blend almost always.   -matt
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: ProWallGuy on June 21, 2007, 08:53:26 PM
Really? 3 months TOPS in a busy season. My oil brushes last much longer but don't see near as much action.
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: Lynjowoman on June 21, 2007, 09:05:15 PM
They just don't make brushes like they use to. I have had brushes that would last a year or more, but that was a long--------- time ago. If a brush last through 1 job now you are lucky. I don't care how well you treat them, they just want last very long.

Lynjo
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: rmichael on June 21, 2007, 09:52:15 PM
I think what really ruins a good brush is paint build up in the ferrule ( at the bristle epoxy set ) paint build up there will cause the bristles to separate Helter-Skelter.
We clean ASAP with warm water/TSP solution... rinse very well and use a brush spinner and brush comb..... Of course they always get shucked....  ;)
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: ProWallGuy on June 21, 2007, 11:05:34 PM
I do all of the above too (minus the TSP). I always try to keep the paint less than half-way down on the bristles. I watch guys all the time dip their brushes and in an hour, its covering the ferrule. Geez....

I reckon on of the top reasons for brush failure would be improper loading of a cut pot (IE too full).

Edit: I also use the brush comb frequently while I'm painting, not just at cleanup.
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: BrushJockey on June 21, 2007, 11:22:00 PM
Brushes have a semi expendable approach for me. The 3-5 jobs in good cutting condition, then they become prime -rough duty- then a select few of the most beat up become prime faux tools, believe it or not!  Sometimes the crappier, the better!
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: Chip McCheckellson on June 22, 2007, 12:46:00 AM
For my fellow newbies, i have a new tactic for painting outside in really hot weather. Simple really, i have one of those newish garden hose nozels that mist, ill mist my paint bucket every now and then, and ill also get the brush wet just a tad so the paint doesn't start drying on the bristles.
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: loumiron on June 22, 2007, 04:25:42 AM
I'm a Wooster and Purdy man. I can squeak out 3 or 4 interiors, 2 or 3 exteriors depending on how hot it is and how rough the surface is. I only get one log home project out of them when using Sikkens though. I always add in an extra $150 or so for 6 new Purdy 4inchers. I now hang them on a wire inside a bucket of thinner every night on the job site and then spin them out in the morning. You cannot allow them to dry while doing a project. They never get that crap totally out of them. Two days after a thorough cleaning, I mean the thinner is looking clear after rinsing, they still stiffen up like crazy.
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: theopas7 on June 22, 2007, 09:29:44 AM
otw,
 lets face it.paint brushes are our livelihood.and we as painters want the best possible brush for the
best job.we've all shopped around and through trial and error we end up with the brushes we use today.
i myself have ended up using the wooster brand of brush. there are other great brand's as well.
 there are as many ways to take care of a brush as there are painters. with that said heres mine. the first
thing i do is to soak my brush hairs to the heel allowing the water to load up into the heel. then i give my
brush a couple of kicks off the end of my shoe to remove the majority of the water from the heel after
which i then whip the brush with my hand to remove even more of the water. now its time to paint. when lunch or a break comes around sink my brush into the paint and cover it with a wet rag.at the end of the day i empty my pot and clean it with my brush. at this point half the paints out of the brush.i then wirebrush the bristles and heel until there is no dried paint on the brush. at that point i work all the paint out of the brush using tapwater. after i'm done i whip out the brush for the next day.
 my brushes last about a year and change to a new brush after they wear out. periodic grooming
occasional brush combing is done as well.i use a stailess steel wirebrush that i dip sikkens srd so the handle does'ntcrack or split for the water.dedicate that wirebrush to brush cleaning and tha will last you 3-5 years. :o
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: Jared on June 22, 2007, 09:58:07 AM
I have only killed one brush in the last 2 years.  Accidentally dropped it into a nearly-full 5.

Normal wear lifespan for me = about 1-2 years of use, depending on brush type & frequency of use.
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: Workaholic on June 22, 2007, 06:56:44 PM
I have about 6 or seven brushes i use. I alternate between them. I am able to get about 18 months out of my brushes. I use the wire brush, tap water, and the comb. The last couple of years i stopped running oil for my trim, and in doing so i find that these acrylic enamels, to be much harder on the brushes. Manor Hall is killing my 3 1/2" trim brushes. I decided today that i was going to go back to ICI and run their trim paint for awhile, and see if maybe it is just something in the Manor Hall. Plus all the Manor Hall is white/pastel base.
If you are using oil, a brush will last a lot longer, oil is easier to clean and a lot more efficient. Those same 6-7 brushes could make it 2+ years.
 
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: BrushJockey on June 22, 2007, 07:38:28 PM
I have found that natural bristles wear back much quicker than synths, but the new primers are hard on brushes. They dry quick, stick really well and are hard to clean out.

I too have used the oil enamels much less, and it is too easy to slag off a cheaper oil brush like a yachtsman then to spend alot of time cleaning it. I will carry an oil brush in spirits until the end of the job, then maybe give it a good clean. otherwise, I probably got my 8 bucks out of it.

Put cleaning time against your per hour time and see if the brush made "mission"....
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: CarlThePainter on June 22, 2007, 08:26:14 PM
Yeah I agree the acrylics trash brushes fast.  The greater percentage of acrylic in a paint, the shorter its life span.  This new formulation of BM Regal products especially....I can't even use the same brush all day long anymore.  The brush just gets too snotted up and the bristles are all heading in different directions.  I use the brush comb during the day but after a couple dips the bristles are all messed up again.

Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: Workaholic on June 22, 2007, 09:15:00 PM
Carl
I know exactly what you mean the PPG wall paint we use can tweak a brush pretty quick. By the end of the day the brush is begging to be cleaned and straightend, and ready to be shucked.
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: Stever on June 22, 2007, 09:49:47 PM
I can get 6 months to a year out of a brush. Woosters and Purdy's. But often only get about 3 months, as inevitably at some point at the end of a long job and I just want to get out of there, when I pack up my stuff I might wrap the brush in plastic and tell myself I'll clean it out at home. Nope, it gets forgotten and dries out.

But like ProWall says, I only let half the length of the bristles touch paint. Paint is very rarely getting up into the ferrule.

When working with acrylics, by mid day there might be too much goopy drying paint accumulating so I clean the brush and start from scratch with a fresh clean brush.

To clean i use running tap water. Smoosh the brush into the bottom of the sink with the tap water running over it. Use a wire brush to comb out the dried stuff. Then keep smooshing it back and forth under the running water till clean. Give it a quick spin with my hands, like you would spin a stick if you were trying to rub it to make a fire. No need to use an actual spinner tool. After spinning I work the bristles back into shape with my hands, instead of leaving them spread out from the spinning. Set it aside to dry overnight, or place it back in the paper cover it came in when i bought it.

But oil brushes don't last me long at all. 1 or 2 jobs usually. Cleaning them is a pain, and if wrapped in plastic and stored in a cool place, I can reuse the same brush day after day for a week or more, then just toss it out. The time it would take to clean it is worth more than the brush.

And, I'm 99% interiors only so my latex/acrylic brushes last longer
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: D. Berry on June 27, 2007, 03:15:51 PM
I use Woosters and usually get a few months out of them.  I wash with water and I think it's called Simple Green and then use a wire brush on it.  I don't like the spinners.  I get most of the excess water out of it and then wrap it in light plastic then put it back in the paper holder it came in.  Keeping it slightly damp seems to keep the bristles together.
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: jackpauhl on August 02, 2007, 10:21:41 PM
I rotate 6 brushes at a time and can get a year or more out of them easy. I end up scrapping them mainly due to neglect no water on the job, for got to clean them when I get home etc. Benjamin Moore 65125 nylon/poly

Oil brushes on the other hand dont last long at all. I do maybe to jobs with one. Or staining masonite doors, I can go through two easy just for applying the stain.

I'm big on brushes. I write and review them non-stop. After more than 10 years of using the Benjamin Moore 65125, I found a new brush to take its place. I am curious to see how well the new brush lasts and its not from Purdy, Wooster or Corona.
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: SixInARow on November 27, 2007, 08:20:05 PM
I usually get by on 3-5 brushes per year alternating between them and depending on how many interior or exterior jobs I get.  I like to clean them out periodically if they start getting all packed up.  I have gotten a lot of my supplies replenished the last few years from our MacAllister Cat jobs.  They always tell us (My uncle with his business, and I with mine - we work together on these jobs) to buy what we need for the job and reimburse us for what we get.  I don't go overboard and take advantage of it, but I have enough to last me a season.
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: paintcrafter on November 27, 2007, 11:26:43 PM
I have about 16 brushes that I use and have had for a year or more. Of them, there are 3 that I am quite fond of....all Purdy. I have a rat tail ox/china 2 1/2" that I use for most of my Satin Impervo work. This brush is 3 or 4 weeks old and is just starting to become "worked in" Gosh, I can paint with that brush all day long, cleaning it twice through out the day and laying a gallon and a half by hand like nobody's business. It seems to get into every area just perfectly.

Here's a tip for all of you brush junkies like myself...

Get two brush keepers, one for oil BRUSHES and fill it with kerosene and get another and fill it with LATEX paint thinner (not water) for acrylic brushes. If they are suspended correctly the bristles will never "wing" out and always be ready to go.

Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: GrassHopper on October 06, 2008, 09:53:34 PM
I read somewhere that a way to keep the bristles on a synthetic brush looking like new is to dip them in boiling water,spin,comb and pack away. The hot water should straighten the bristles.

Never tried it and don`t know if it applies to natural bristle.
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: BrushJockey on October 07, 2008, 04:59:43 PM
Never, ever put a natural bristle brush in water. EVAR.  they will not even be good dusters.
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: yusuf on October 09, 2008, 03:22:26 AM
Never, ever put a natural bristle brush in water. EVAR.  they will not even be good dusters.

Never?

What would you suggest insead???
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: BrushJockey on October 09, 2008, 05:56:10 AM
Natural bristle brushes are for oil or solvent based paints.  Use mineral spirits or the recommended solvent for the paint.
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: yusuf on October 12, 2008, 04:38:48 AM
Natural bristle brushes are for oil or solvent based paints.  Use mineral spirits or the recommended solvent for the paint.

there are many really nice looking synthetic brushes out there. Apparently the technology has greatly improve over the last 10 years that i have been out. when i was training i was told that synth just would not hold the paint etc. So now the big question is: Synth or natural! Are you suggesting that i keep the synth for the non oil based BJ? Read below...

I just got a Purdy Monarch elite 3" synthetic, it cost me £23.Thats about $40+. I painted on some Zinsser bullseye odourless onto a particularly old wall, chalky plaster etc, has been a nightmare... anyway, I stuck it in my brushmate overnight, brought it out and it was completely ruined!. Dry paint on bristles!! I tried rinsing in meths but to no avail! I checked the tin, the thinner should  be 1 part amonia to 2 parts water apparently.

I guess the brushmate is for oils only and this one was a solvent... anyway thats 23 quid down the chute. Heartbraking cause it felt like such a nice brush.  :'(

Any ideas on how to salvage....
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: BrushJockey on October 12, 2008, 07:35:49 AM
Although you can use a synth brush in oil, it was made for waterborne. So yes, natural for oil and solvents, synthetics for latex and waterborne. 
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: jackpauhl on October 21, 2008, 12:13:30 AM
Wow. Im shocked at the replies. I use Benjamin Moore brushes, i can seriously get through a year easy with them for inside work working a heavy busy schedule all year long. What I do is buy a 6 pack and rotate them throughout the year, daily. I do new homes, I would think guys doing repaints would get more life because you guys are painting previously painted surfaces. Cutting nonstop bare drywall mud can make and shape a brush.

Even still, Wooster Pro Classic Easyflo and Purdy Clearcut brushes last just as long. Just did a small writeup on my blog for the Wooster Easyflo, that brush has a few things to be said about it. IMO a brush isnt even close to broke-in until you spread a few gallons with it cutting. Maybe its the way I paint but my brushes 'no joke' get better with time.

I cant really offer anything new to keeping them in shape other than the usual. I just rinse in warm water when im done and dont let them EVER sit in a can of water or paint more than a few minutes. I use a stainless wire to comb. I do bend recovery with hot tap water to immediate cold water but thats about it. The Benjamin Moore brushes tend to go limp with prolonged usage where the Wooster Pro Classic Easyflo and the Purdy Clearcut do not.

I wonder if there is something to be said here about that whole slap n tap method of dunking and painting. Maybe thats tough on the brush... I wouldnt know. Sort of makes sense though, if you beat anything long enough it should break.

Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: canadianpainter on November 27, 2008, 06:12:45 PM
I use purdy's and they usually last me two or three months which I think is pretty good.  Personally, I think the only reason they get ruined is when I get lazy and 'forget' to clean them or I don't have a brush cover handy after I clean them and the bristles get bent.
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: Georgie Wood on November 30, 2008, 02:46:35 PM
In the past, it would not be uncommon for me to just figure the death of a brush or two in the cost to do the job. On exterior jobs, I might keep a 3" brush wrapped in plastic when not in use and pitch it at the end of the job. But now, with the cost of everything going up, I am less apt to replace brushes as often.
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: thebrushand on December 08, 2008, 07:01:08 AM
This is quite a bizarre conversation!! It has never ocurred to me to time the life of a brush. They either get tossed because they get left out by mistake, or even rarer, an oil brush wears down so bad that it is not even good for cutting in any more.

For oil, (most of my work) I use Hamilton Perfection brushes in UK, just bought a box of 6 assorted for $50, (2 each of 2'', 1.5" and 1") and can't imagine when I will need to replace them for wear and tear. Any surface needing more than a 2" brush  I am now in the habit of using a short nap gloss roller

For oil painting a boat in the US I treated myself to a 2.5" Epifanes oval brush. It was OK, but crazy expensive about $35.

What surprises me is that nobody has mentioned the Brushmate for storing oil brushes. I dont think it has reached America yet! It is an airtight box racked out for 4 or up to 20 brushes, with a slow release solvent
that prevents oil paint from drying. There is no liquid to spill or shake out, and no time wasted ever getting set up with white paint ( we use white primers and undercoat at least 60% of the time). I wrote about the brushmate on my blog http://andrewcrichton.blogspot.com/search/label/Equipment

cheers
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: Workaholic on December 08, 2008, 07:43:58 PM
What surprises me is that nobody has mentioned the Brushmate for storing oil brushes. I dont think it has reached America yet! It is an airtight box racked out for 4 or up to 20 brushes, with a slow release solvent
that prevents oil paint from drying. There is no liquid to spill or shake out, and no time wasted ever getting set up with white paint ( we use white primers and undercoat at least 60% of the time). I wrote about the brushmate on my blog http://andrewcrichton.blogspot.com/search/label/Equipment
Is that what this is?
www.painterforum.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&zenid=603760804729e94b38226b0a5c6d07f8&keyword=brush+keeper
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: thebrushand on December 09, 2008, 12:21:23 PM
What surprises me is that nobody has mentioned the Brushmate for storing oil brushes. I dont think it has reached America yet! It is an airtight box racked out for 4 or up to 20 brushes, with a slow release solvent
that prevents oil paint from drying. There is no liquid to spill or shake out, and no time wasted ever getting set up with white paint ( we use white primers and undercoat at least 60% of the time). I wrote about the brushmate on my blog http://andrewcrichton.blogspot.com/search/label/Equipment
Is that what this is?
www.painterforum.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&zenid=603760804729e94b38226b0a5c6d07f8&keyword=brush+keeper

No. It is much simpler.

(http://www.bozzle.com/ImagesTools/bmate1.jpg)
Title: Re: How long do your brushes last, really?
Post by: Workaholic on December 12, 2008, 06:49:55 PM
What surprises me is that nobody has mentioned the Brushmate for storing oil brushes. I dont think it has reached America yet! It is an airtight box racked out for 4 or up to 20 brushes, with a slow release solvent
that prevents oil paint from drying. There is no liquid to spill or shake out, and no time wasted ever getting set up with white paint ( we use white primers and undercoat at least 60% of the time). I wrote about the brushmate on my blog http://andrewcrichton.blogspot.com/search/label/Equipment
Is that what this is?
www.painterforum.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&zenid=603760804729e94b38226b0a5c6d07f8&keyword=brush+keeper

No. It is much simpler.

(http://www.bozzle.com/ImagesTools/bmate1.jpg)
Yeah i looked that up online and saw quite a few different versions of it. Looks like a great thing if running oil. I wish i would of known about it back then.
I was just wondering if the "Brush keeper" was one too because it seems so bulky just to hold brushes. Plus it says it has a drain valve on it as well.