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Professional Painters => Professional Painters and associated Trades Forum => Topic started by: Jake on January 30, 2009, 10:27:10 AM

Title: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: Jake on January 30, 2009, 10:27:10 AM
OK, so I'm getting ready this morning to roll out and start a new job on a 3400 sf interior and I can't find a squirel mixer in all my stuff. I call this guy who's doing the job with me , and who's been painting pro for as long as me and I ask him if he has a squirel mixer. He said he had one at home but he was already on his way. So I said OK, no prob, we'll just box everything by hand. He was all like "What"?

I told him that since it's my job, I'm calling the shots and that we Alway's Box the paint. He starts asking me "why.... They shake everything at the store" I told him that that's just the way it is because even when they tint everything all at once... There can still be inconsistancys in the 5's and/or the gallons. Hence... We always box the 5's for super uniform color.

Same thing with gallons. When we box those, we'll empty the cans into a five bucket, put a little water into the bottom of the cans, shake em up, put a screen over the top of the 5 , and then lay the can on top of the screen upside down to get all the good stuff on the bottom of it into the 5 where we then box it all together.

The color is then super sweet and uniform.

Do any of you do this as well?

Gotta roll out here in about half an hour. You can bet I'll be doing everything above here in just a little while.  :D
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: the PAINTSMITH on January 30, 2009, 11:06:28 AM
I've always taken them to the box stores and had them do it... ;D
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: LJ on January 30, 2009, 11:17:37 AM
I only box if I start a new can/5 mid-wall.  I find that as long as any ever-so-slight shade differences occur at natural breaks, no one ever sees them.  To tell you the truth, maybe I just have poor eyes for color, but I have yet to see any noticeable difference in shade between cans/5's.  Of course, I almost always buy my paint all on the same day.  I do always box, if the paint has been sitting, or if I purchase paint on different days.

I like your idea about getting the last little bit out of 1 gallon cans.  They will dry faster that way also, allowing them to be disposed of more quickly.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: LJ on January 30, 2009, 11:18:34 AM
I've always taken them to the box stores and had them do it... ;D
Nice!  8)
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: Georgie Wood on January 30, 2009, 02:11:31 PM
I don't do many of the really larger jobs that call for many 5 buckets of paint. But, I do box all paints(except white trim paint). The necessity to box paints was one of the first things I learned from (bad) experience back in '89. What a heart breaker when you cut everything, roll, then sit scratching your head wondering why what was cut is a bit lighter/darker than what was rolled. Then the light goes on...Ooooooh!

Man, I like that idea of using a roller grid to drain buckets. Something so simple, I should have thought of that myself.

I think you're doing the right thing, Jake. It takes time, but if there is any touch-up, etc to be done, you are assured that it's going to match up nicely. One less thing to worry about.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: rmichael on January 30, 2009, 04:57:45 PM
I always BOX my paint... sometimes it wins, sometimes I do...  :D

Seriously, We always box our paint, if it is singles we empty in a five, put about 1"-1-1/2" of water in an "empty" single, tap on the lid and shake vigorously, pour into next can and repeat and so on, then pour into five. Then pour back and forth a few times with an empty five. The last pour gets strained through a 5 gal strainer bag... yes, these days it's a good idea to strain new paint...  ;)

Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: canadianpainter on January 30, 2009, 05:38:14 PM
All I do is large commercial jobs and I never box paint.  I don't see the need to go through all that work if you simply use the same can/pail to cut as you do to roll.  I think boxing paint the traditional way is a complete waste of time because if you just use your head and never let your can or tray get empty then you're boxing the paint when your fill them up. 

If I ever caught one of our employees boxing paint I'd probably tell them to stop F$%^ing around and put the goddamn paint on the wall already. lol
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: UUjohn on January 30, 2009, 05:51:02 PM
if its a two coat job of 2 or more gallons per coat, i'll work out of each can for the first coat...  i'll box the 2+ cans for the final...  y'know, just in case the batches are different for each can, a tad off on the tint formula etc etc ...  you know the drill ...
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: rmichael on January 30, 2009, 06:06:25 PM
I have seen a full shade difference between lot numbers with off the shelf colors.... and of course there is human/machine error... ever seen a tinting machine spit?...  :-\  .

If the paint color "off shades" on the job it can skew an entire wall, ceiling, or the whole job and there is really no way to fix it.. except a repaint..   :'(

I have experienced some mistint horrors, so IMO Boxing is worth the effort...  ;)
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: readboutjc on January 30, 2009, 06:07:44 PM
on the few big jobs i have, i use an 18" roller and add the first gallon to the pan, then about half way
through the first gallon i start to add the second and so on.  i cut in as i go and use the same paint that
is in the tray.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: HeatherP on January 30, 2009, 06:11:09 PM
I box the second coat...don't worry about the first coat.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: jackpauhl on January 30, 2009, 06:23:46 PM
I box the second coat...don't worry about the first coat.

Ditto. Lighter colors not so much.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: rmichael on January 30, 2009, 09:28:11 PM
I box the second coat...don't worry about the first coat.

Ditto. Lighter colors not so much.

Hmmm... Why not box enough paint for both coats? ???  I don't see any time saved by boxing the second and not the first.. JMHO
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: canadianpainter on January 30, 2009, 11:21:50 PM
I have seen a full shade difference between lot numbers with off the shelf colors.... and of course there is human/machine error... ever seen a tinting machine spit?...  :-\  .

If the paint color "off shades" on the job it can skew an entire wall, ceiling, or the whole job and there is really no way to fix it.. except a repaint..   :'(

I have experienced some mistint horrors, so IMO Boxing is worth the effort...  ;)


I think every painter has had "mistint horrors" and it really does suck.  However, I don't see how boxing the paint resolves the problem and maybe boxing does more harm than good.  I mean, if I buy four gallons of paint and one of them is mistinted; I box the paint and then paint the area and everything looks great....but what happens when my customer or I buy a gallon of that colour to touch up and the colours don't match because a mistinted gallon of paint was boxed with the good ones?  Furthermore, what good does that do for the industry standards?  My supplier wouldn't know about the mistint; hence they'd be unable to take action to prevent these errors in the future. 
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: Fred on January 31, 2009, 08:18:27 AM
 We box it all, all the time. And always leave enough for touchup.
We've a couple builders who do 11 month punch lists, so we're always back fixing nail pops and corner cracks. we call it grocery money lol
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: the PAINTSMITH on January 31, 2009, 09:05:07 AM
Though I still mix the paint (gal.s into 5s, 5s into each other), color is not so major a reason as it used to be. Yeah, a couple degrees off-tint and it can drive you nuts, but my D-E rep took me to lunch a number of years ago when I still flirted with production, and he gave me the ultimate reason to box paint:

Though the technology has advanced in leaps and bounds to match paint tint virtually molecule for molecule, you can't keep a good fear down. Yes, there are lousy dealers and some lousy tint machines out there continuing to make a bad name for the trade, and the labels themselves often tell you that "only God is perfect", perpetuating the idea that color matching ain't all that close of a science, which in isolated incidences may be true...But the reason manufacturers jump up and down insisting that you box your paint is for consistant sheen...

It seems that, from batch to batch, there is not a coatings manufacturer on the planet who can match enamel content and the amount of sheen between any two of those batches. This includes stock colors...

Folks will not notice a slight difference in color, if it is actually slight. They may regard it as a shadow or the light playing with their own eyes. But there is no lower limit on sheen; If there is a difference and a light source, it WILL be noticed.

So, if you don't box your paint, you might want to make sure the batch numbers match...
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: jackpauhl on January 31, 2009, 11:17:39 AM
I box the second coat...don't worry about the first coat.

Ditto. Lighter colors not so much.

Hmmm... Why not box enough paint for both coats? ???  I don't see any time saved by boxing the second and not the first.. JMHO

In my case I do not purchase second coat paint on big jobs or new homes when I do the first coat. Too much time passes between 1st and final coat. People change their mind etc.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: HeatherP on January 31, 2009, 05:22:57 PM
I box the second coat...don't worry about the first coat.

Ditto. Lighter colors not so much.

Hmmm... Why not box enough paint for both coats? ???  I don't see any time saved by boxing the second and not the first.. JMHO

no particular reason...just don't...never thought about it much...maybe I'll give it a try...will definitely save from asking "is this paint boxed??" all the time...we will start Monday.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: Vin on February 01, 2009, 10:36:50 PM
I WILL FROM NOW ON .

2 weeks ago had a job to touch up a room , ended up turning into a full paint went to the big box had them make up 2 more gallons , applied the paint, once dried I had 3 different tints on the walls, went back bought 3 more watched him make it I WATCHED THE TINTER SPIT AND DRIP EXTRA PAINT IN . I  BOXED them all together that time around  repainted the whole room, funny thing  i have always boxed my 5 gallon buckets on the bigger jobs but didn't think to do it on the singles.


I agree BIG TIME with rmichael I get a lot of paint these days with junk in them  brand new fresh buckets used to be a problem only in the summer now its all year round I notice.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: Workaholic on February 03, 2009, 11:44:08 PM
I am in the boxing of the second coat group. Often i purchase all the wall paint at once so when i get to the second coat it has sat for a day or two or three depending on the job. So i box it.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: SixInARow on February 09, 2009, 07:45:38 PM
I box my paint pretty much all the time.  In the early days I had a few jobs that had to be redone thanks to colors being off just enough that it could be seen.  Since then the count has been: 0.
I always strain too.  I've also noticed that it seems necessary to strain everything these days, especially 5's.

And how is canadianpainter still inbusiness?  Never boxes paint, never uses anything but primer on ceilings...I mean wtf.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: canadianpainter on February 14, 2009, 10:42:48 AM
And how is canadianpainter still inbusiness?  Never boxes paint, never uses anything but primer on ceilings...I mean wtf.

I chuckled when I read this.  For some reason your comment reminded me of one guy I had working for me who was the most unproductive retard painter I've ever seen. 

Not boxing paint and only using primer on ceilings aren't things my customers care about.  I stay in business by paying attention to the things my customers do care about.  Not only do I "stay in business", but I'm the largest and most successful painting contractor in my area. 
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: HeatherP on February 14, 2009, 11:12:21 AM
Not boxing paint and only using primer on ceilings aren't things my customers care about.  I stay in business by paying attention to the things my customers do care about.  Not only do I "stay in business", but I'm the largest and most successful painting contractor in my area.

What things do your customers care about?????!!!!! ???
In what area of Canada are you?  I am in Canada as well and my clients care about quality. Boxing paint and using proper paint on the ceiling produce quality results.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: waynec on February 14, 2009, 01:01:55 PM
We only box the finish coat. As far as ceiling primer, we don't use it. Just a flat white ceiling paint over plaster.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: SixInARow on February 14, 2009, 01:41:37 PM
Quote
I chuckled when I read this.  For some reason your comment reminded me of one guy I had working for me who was the most unproductive retard painter I've ever seen. 

I think the whole board chuckles when they read your posts.  So are you calling me a retard and an unproductive painter because I do things that 99.9% of the world's painters consider correct?  How do you know your customers don't care?  Seems to me if I told my customers at the end of a job "Hey, I just used primer on your ceilings, and I didn't box your paint so if you see any areas where the color doesn't match 100% don't worry about it" they would probably be a bit upset.  You stay in business likely because you're one of those contractors that always has new customers, never repeats or referrals because your work is junk.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: canadianpainter on February 14, 2009, 04:57:21 PM
Not boxing paint and only using primer on ceilings aren't things my customers care about.  I stay in business by paying attention to the things my customers do care about.  Not only do I "stay in business", but I'm the largest and most successful painting contractor in my area.

What things do your customers care about?????!!!!! ???
In what area of Canada are you?  I am in Canada as well and my clients care about quality. Boxing paint and using proper paint on the ceiling produce quality results.

They care about getting a good paint job at a good price and on time.  I think the most unsuccessful painters are the ones that charge the same for every job and produce the same quality of workmanship for every job.  You can't treat every job as if you're painting the Mona Lisa.  Some people just want colour on the walls, others want a perfect finish.  Every customer has different needs and that's what I pay attention to.

Furthermore, not boxing paint is only a problem if there's a mistint.  If you're assuming that I would walk away from a job when colours don't match you're mistaken.





Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: SixInARow on February 14, 2009, 05:08:41 PM
I don't think I've read anything more ridiculous in my life.  I don't charge the same for every job, but I give the same high quality job to each customer regardless of what they pay or what I think of them, of even if they just want it cheap shotted I'm still going to make it look good.  I want everyone that sees work I did to think that it looks great and hope they'll call me for some jobs of their own.  If a customer just wants some color on the walls, I'm still going to make it look presentable.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: canadianpainter on February 14, 2009, 05:15:11 PM
Quote
I chuckled when I read this.  For some reason your comment reminded me of one guy I had working for me who was the most unproductive retard painter I've ever seen. 

I think the whole board chuckles when they read your posts.  So are you calling me a retard and an unproductive painter because I do things that 99.9% of the world's painters consider correct? 

Well, I know of a fact that 99.9% of the world's painters aren't as successful in the business as I am.  

You stay in business likely because you're one of those contractors that always has new customers, never repeats or referrals because your work is junk.

By no means are we a fly by night operation.  The company was built over the years by establishing and maintaining relationships with the people we do work for.  Also, our work always meets the needs of our customers.  I think we've only had one semi-unhappy customer who we refuse to work for, but even to this day that company still faxes us asking us to tender on their jobs.   You're way off with your assumptions.  




Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: canadianpainter on February 14, 2009, 05:18:44 PM
I don't think I've read anything more ridiculous in my life.  I don't charge the same for every job, but I give the same high quality job to each customer regardless of what they pay or what I think of them, of even if they just want it cheap shotted I'm still going to make it look good.  I want everyone that sees work I did to think that it looks great and hope they'll call me for some jobs of their own.  If a customer just wants some color on the walls, I'm still going to make it look presentable.

What you're saying is hypocritical.  You say you "give the same high quality job to each customer regardless of what they pay" in one breath and then say "if a customer just wants some color on the walls, I'm still going to make it look presentable'.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: HeatherP on February 14, 2009, 06:10:43 PM
Furthermore, not boxing paint is only a problem if there's a mistint.

incorrect!
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: SixInARow on February 14, 2009, 06:23:22 PM
I don't think I've read anything more ridiculous in my life.  I don't charge the same for every job, but I give the same high quality job to each customer regardless of what they pay or what I think of them, of even if they just want it cheap shotted I'm still going to make it look good.  I want everyone that sees work I did to think that it looks great and hope they'll call me for some jobs of their own.  If a customer just wants some color on the walls, I'm still going to make it look presentable.

What you're saying is hypocritical.  You say you "give the same high quality job to each customer regardless of what they pay" in one breath and then say "if a customer just wants some color on the walls, I'm still going to make it look presentable'.
It's not hypocritical you idiot!  I'm going to make it look presentable/high quality/nice whatever the hell you want to call it.  I'm not going to just throw some color just because the customer "wants come color" and have it look like crap.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: Jake on February 14, 2009, 06:49:21 PM
What you're saying is hypocritical.  You say you "give the same high quality job to each customer regardless of what they pay" in one breath and then say "if a customer just wants some color on the walls, I'm still going to make it look presentable'.

I disagree with you canada.

I think what six is saying, is that whether the job is big or small and no matter if they want every inch of their property painted ... or just the walls...

He takes pride in his work, DOESN'T cut corners, and delivers a top notch job.

Insinuating that six is a "retard" painter just because he's questioning you is like the proverbial pot and kettle routine.

Also when you type things like...

Not boxing paint and only using primer on ceilings aren't things my customers care about.  

Seems to me to show that you live by the old "what he/she doesn't know won't kill them" song and dance.

I would bet that if the client DID know... They'd want you to do it right.

ps, didn't you once say that you only do commercial work?



Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: Vin on February 15, 2009, 01:20:25 AM
This is getting silly guys/gals.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: canadianpainter on February 15, 2009, 11:14:14 AM

It's not hypocritical you idiot!  I'm going to make it look presentable/high quality/nice whatever the hell you want to call it.  I'm not going to just throw some color just because the customer "wants come color" and have it look like crap.

Personally, I think you could use a lesson in business if you put such little stock in what the customer wants.  If you spend more time on a job than what is required to satisfy the customer then you're doing yourself and the customer a disservice. 
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: canadianpainter on February 15, 2009, 11:26:14 AM

He takes pride in his work, DOESN'T cut corners, and delivers a top notch job.


I take pride in my work.  I take pride in the fact that I can fulfill the needs of our customers better than most painters.  I take pride in the fact that I listen to what my customers want and that I get the job done for fair price.  It seems to me that some painters here subscribe to the notion that they know what's best for the customer, better than the customer themselves.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: Jake on February 15, 2009, 12:12:06 PM
It seems to me that some painters here subscribe to the notion that they know what's best for the customer, better than the customer themselves.

Again...

Not boxing paint and only using primer on ceilings aren't things my customers care about. 

Yes... You're just that easy.  ::)
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: Workaholic on February 15, 2009, 03:17:01 PM
Some strong opinions about boxing. I box it because no matter how good they are at the paint store it is just best to take a few minutes to make sure it is all uniform. Also i never trust that a gallon will exactly match a 5'er
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: jdmccann on February 16, 2009, 03:03:57 PM
Always... never had any bad experiences here but for a few mins work I'm not gonna risk it.  Plus I'd be embarassed explaining to the boss why I need to give a room another coat.  Reassures customers too.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: rmichael on February 16, 2009, 10:40:17 PM
Quote
It seems to me that some painters here subscribe to the notion that they know what's best for the customer, better than the customer themselves.

Absolutely...  ;)    Other than maybe the color most clients haven't a clue about the nuts and bolts of painting. That's why they hire an expert.
Truth be known most of us are a bit selfish, and in some ways the client becomes secondary to the Job. Of course, we want to please our customers, but the Job, with all it's challenges, becomes our responsibility. We strive to achieve excellent results to please our most strident critic... ourselves.

I do agree that high volume commercial/new construction work has different requirements than custom painting. When working for a GC speed and efficiency are often the priority, but when working in the Home of a persnickety client, it's the best practice to cover your primer and box your paint...  ;)
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: Vin on February 16, 2009, 10:58:51 PM
2 different animals are being talked about in here, 2 different ways to treat them, end of subject LOL
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: Lynjowoman on February 17, 2009, 07:18:37 PM
Well said Vin.

Always give your client what they want & more in most cases. We all have our own way of doing things, we will never all agree on everything so let's agree to disagree.  ;D  0:>)

Lynjo
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: Rambunctious on February 18, 2009, 07:56:40 PM
You know what? I have not boxed paint for years and I've not had it come back to bite me.  Today's mixing and tinting procedures are far more accurate than just 10 years ago.  Also Paint manufacturers do a better job as well, they now make huge vats of product.  All the base formulas are exact from batch to batch.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: SixInARow on February 18, 2009, 08:17:59 PM
Says you.  I have had it happen twice in about 6 or 7 years.  That's two times too many.  PITA.
Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: canadianpainter on February 18, 2009, 10:13:43 PM
Says you.  I have had it happen twice in about 6 or 7 years.  That's two times too many.  PITA.

Out of curiousity, what brand of paint did you have a problem with?  What's your relationship with your supplier?

We buy well over $50,000 worth of paint annually from our Benjamin Moore supplier alone and I think because we deal with them so much that they take more steps to ensure that every can of paint they give us is a dead match.  There's only 3 people at that particular store who are allowed to mix our paint because we've had a few mistint problems.

Title: Re: How many of you ALWAYS box your paint on a big job?
Post by: SixInARow on February 19, 2009, 12:34:24 AM
Been a while, I don't remember.  One was either Porter or SW.

I don't see how a store could allow employees to go the extra mile for one guy vs. the other.  That's not fair to all the customers.