House Painter Forum

Professional Painters => Professional Painters and associated Trades Forum => Topic started by: admin on April 11, 2007, 06:48:17 PM

Title: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: admin on April 11, 2007, 06:48:17 PM
Thanks to Tim ( ProWallGuy )
Here is Tim's residential contract in skeleton form, we converted it to a MS WORD DOC. and removed the specific info. If you have MS Word you can download and customize the form if you wish.

http://www.painterforum.com/pfdocs.html

Admin
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: Stever on April 21, 2007, 05:19:13 AM
In my 12 years of painting I have yet to use an actual written contract. And have never had a problem getting paid at the end of the job.

But, I am a one man show and 99% of my work is dealing directly with home owners. Would likely be much different if i was running a crew and doing new construction for building contractors or any kind of commercial work.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: Lynjowoman on April 21, 2007, 05:12:37 PM
Stever
You are really taking a big chance not using a contract. We have been stiffed by well to do homeowners even with a contract. Only had this to happen once with the president of the Chamber in our area. He turned out to be a big jerk. Paid all but the last draw & the additional work we did. Called him, he said send me the bill. We did every month for a year, no responce. Turned it over to a collection agency, they didn't have any luck either, but it did cause him a big headache when he tried to get a business loan to start his own business. Hope he gets stiffed a few times.  ;D

Lynjo
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: mjmpainting on April 21, 2007, 06:16:10 PM
CY Lie, a rich hotel owner in Niagara on the Lake, Ontario, is notorious for getitng work done and then saying so it wasn't satisfactory so I'm not paying you.

Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: Stever on April 22, 2007, 12:19:03 AM
Stever
You are really taking a big chance not using a contract.

In theory, yes, I know. But in practice it has never been an issue in 12 years. Almost all my clients are referrals and its not like anyone wants to play the "big jerk" when its possible it may go back down the pipe to the their friend, relative, co-worker that referred me in the first place. I also often develop personal relationships with my clients. I'm in their home every day for a week to a month and we chat about everything under the sun. And I always point out the little extras I do to ensure things are perfect (i'm a perfectionist) and they appreciate that I'm not just giving them an adequate average paint job. They realize I give a lot more than most to ensure top quality and are thoroughly impressed. Quality comes first, productivity is a distant 3rd or 4th.

And I also don't take a deposit up front, though on large jobs I sometimes ask for an advance about 1/2 or 3/4 into the job when I'm running low on funds to cover paint costs. Again never a problem.

Now, I'm not saying anyone else here on this forum should do the same. I may be a rare case, or just crazy ;D

By all means, protect yourself with a contract. Tim's version looks like a good one to use if you don't have one.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: ProWallGuy on April 22, 2007, 08:15:36 AM
I think if you don't take any money down, then you are basically working for free until you get some funds from them. In essence, you are loaning them your time until they pay you. I am not a bank, therefore I don't loan anything. I let the customer fund their own home improvement project.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: BrushJockey on April 22, 2007, 04:05:45 PM
I'm kind of half way in between . I usually have a contract, always if it is a new customer. My contracts are much simpler, although I do try to list all components of a job.  I would feel a bit taken back, if I were a customer of mine, with the adversarial tone of some of the parts of the above contract.
  But if your relationship with the client becomes adversarial, it is needed.
And I also think there is a difference in a 1 or2 guy shop , where the client has the person who they originally talked to, who comes and does the look and wrote the bid, and then shows up to do the work.  Much different than a biz with a different guy for each stage. Much more personal.  And it's harder to stiff someone your more personal with. Not impossible, harder.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: rmichael on April 22, 2007, 04:18:43 PM
I understand your point BJ, I once felt that presenting a written contract would be questioned as a matter of trust, but in reality most clients welcome one, after all, they protect everyone involved by keeping them on the same page.
 
They also preempt conversations like this:

Did you prime everything?
No, we never discussed a primer.
Well, I just assumed you would prime, and I thought your price included one!! I'm not paying you a dime!!

 :'(

rmichael
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: MiTm on April 25, 2007, 05:32:59 PM
I'm with stever...a one-man show here, all referrals. The estimate/bid I give is as specific as I can make it...whatever gets washed/primed/sanded/painted is included. If access is an issue, steps to remedy the situation are suggested. I discuss with the client ad nauseum(if needed) all aspects of what I will be doing, how it will be done.

On large jobs that require paint purchases of over $500.00 I ask that the client pays for the materials as I purchase them. I show a receipt and a check is written. No deposits up front.

IMO contracts are to protect(legally) both parties. There have been occasions on jobs that span 4-6 weeks that I have asked to be paid
a % to cover my living expenses. This has never caused problems.

mark
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: nabira on May 01, 2007, 07:49:21 PM
I never did sign a contract with clients when I stared out, and still to this day don't sign one with the old clients. However, I do sign a contract with every new clients. There was a case last year where a customer owed me 5 digit number, when I walked out the job :-\. The case is still pending for me to get my money. Have I not had a signed contract there was no way to take any legal action to recover the money.

Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: rcpainter on May 20, 2007, 10:55:39 PM
I lost a collective $20,000.00 last year between 2 out of town jobs :o >:( :'(
No kidding, I could show you. Had to sell a truck and buckle down for a ride. Still riding...
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: BrushJockey on May 21, 2007, 07:43:35 PM
Ouch. Thats gotta smart.  :(
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: ProWallGuy on May 21, 2007, 09:32:56 PM
I lost a collective $20,000.00 last year between 2 out of town jobs :o >:( :'(
No kidding, I could show you. Had to sell a truck and buckle down for a ride. Still riding...
I reckon there was a lesson to be learned there.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: BrushJockey on May 21, 2007, 09:49:40 PM
Well on a similar sad note, last year I lost 8 big ones. Had a swell contract. Contractor went under and it was clear that I could chase him forever for nothing, or just move on.

One day he might throw me a bone if he ever gets out from under, but I'm not counting on it.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: ProWallGuy on May 21, 2007, 10:01:37 PM
I call my lawyer and/or slap a lien for anything over $500. I don't make it easy for them to walk away, and if bankruptcy court starts doling out assets, I want to be sure I'm line. I'm too old and mean to work for free.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: paintcrafter on November 27, 2007, 11:02:31 PM
Working without a contract happens. It's hard to cover all of the bases all of the time. It seems that every time I work without something written, albeit even an email; the customer or myself forgets the details and we end up with that pregnant pause that makes check collection so much more difficult and less efficient.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: Vin on May 06, 2008, 09:38:49 AM
I make a list of the total scope of the job and make sure that NOTHING is missed no matter how small I then go over it with the client once we agree papers get signed I also add an extra note that anything added to this contract must be agreed upon and signed by both of us and that there will added fees. I have forgotten to write things in and the client has caught it but other wise most contracts have gone very well this way, so far.

There is NO working without a contract unless it's my close personal family,period.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: waynec on February 10, 2009, 11:33:52 PM
I find that contracts benefit both parties involved. I know that if something goes wrong such as non-payment, then I have signed paperwork to bring to court if it gets that far. Also, the customer will feel secure that they are also protected. By the way, I'm a newbie to this forum.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: jwzumwalt on May 12, 2009, 03:01:13 PM
www.aa-painting.com/public/6-templates/sample-contract.pdf

I keep copies of each job and have created generic templates for major types of work. This is a good example of my "exterior residential" contract.

I always use a contract for jobs over $1000.00; or jobs over $500.00 were quite a few options were discussed. I generally do not add addendum's or update the contract if extra tasks are added during the coarse of the work.

I have never needed to assert the contract but I know that in several instances the customer has gone back and read the contract to clarify a point. Contracts keep hard feelings or mis-communication from occurring.

I just had a customer think I should have painted some window sills because of an offer to include them in the "living" room paint job. They chose to have me install baseboard and paint the bathroom. Wouldn't you know it... they thought the window sills were "free" - I did not write a contract so I did them anyway. I will end up with more money by a good referral then enforcing the point.

Shame on me for not jotting down a note on a small piece of paper that had the agreement!


 
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: rochele20 on January 31, 2012, 11:46:47 PM
Signing contracts for the work you are going to do is a lot helpful than verbal agreements only.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: Joshua on February 24, 2012, 11:48:40 PM
I never did sign a contract with clients when I stared out, and still to this day don't sign one with the old clients. However, I do sign a contract with every new clients. There was a case last year where a customer owed me 5 digit number, when I walked out the job :-\. The case is still pending for me to get my money. Have I not had a signed contract there was no way to take any legal action to recover the money.

I also learned my lesson too. Years ago I didn't use contracts in doing a job, so what happened was I never got what was due to me. The client said that it was not what we have talked about and only paid me 75%.  As a result I now have a contract that states the job description and the pay details. Never take the risk, we are here to earn.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: pinantan on April 03, 2012, 08:12:51 PM
been in the biz 36 yrs and seen many a guy ripped off or get pennies on the buck from a court.
If you are uncomfortable bringing up a contract tell your customer that your acct. and lawyer made
you do it after a customer took you.
And you feel very uncomfortable doing it.They usually feel bad for you
liens are crap unless its anew construction or the client wants to sell
By the way.Hi to everyone im new.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: KBP on April 25, 2012, 12:37:36 PM
In Connecticut, if you aren't registered as a Home Improvement Contractor and you do not have a written contract with specific elements ie.  start/completion dates, HIC #, etc. you have virtually no rights legally regardless of any other "understanding" or agreement.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: Straight Edge Painting on July 13, 2014, 12:08:28 PM
This is how I set up my proposal forms:

Thank you for time in showing me your project...

Our painting process:
(be very detailed here-tell them what your normal painting process is)

Scope of work:  (be over detailed here, tell them what is included and what is not included)

Total Investment for labor, paint, and materials $$$$

I understand this is a large investment for painting.  We do feel our prices reflect the value of the the type of service we offer.  We hold ourselves to the highest standard and this mean that you get the best quality of work and the ease of working with a painting company who's number one priority is your comfort and satisfaction.

Please email me back to confirm you received this proposal...

Thank You,

John Doe Painting Company

house painters Jacksonville fl (http://www.straightedgepaintingllc.com)

Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: Precision Painting on September 06, 2015, 05:21:36 PM
I call my lawyer and/or slap a lien for anything over $500. I don't make it easy for them to walk away, and if bankruptcy court starts doling out assets, I want to be sure I'm line. I'm too old and mean to work for free.

couple weeks ago I got ripped off for $850... ouch...
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: soperfectpaint on September 26, 2015, 12:58:02 AM
Work according to the terms and conditions of contract is the sign of trust.You can easily work by signing contract.We are working from 1984 and have SDB 8A SDB certification.

www.soperfectpaint.com
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: soperfectpaint on October 20, 2015, 01:58:11 AM
Written contract should be there in any business. With the help of this we can work in an effective manner.
www.soperfectpaint.com
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: JamesBN on December 07, 2015, 06:28:20 PM
Great information sharing here.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: facembani223 on April 30, 2016, 03:37:38 AM
You can easily work by signing contract.
We are working from 1984 and have SDB 8A SDB certification.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: EvaRogers on August 02, 2016, 01:01:34 AM
Whether your house or company needs a new interior or exterior painting job, painting your deck or patio, hire business painting palm beach (http://www.westpalmbeachpainterswaterproofing.com/) for professional painting services.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: xunu166 on August 11, 2016, 02:10:51 AM
 The case is still pending for me to get my money.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: jpacelt on August 21, 2016, 12:38:09 PM
I think if you don't take any money down, then you are basically working for free until you get some funds from them. In essence, you are loaning them your time until they pay you. I am not a bank, therefore I don't loan anything. I let the customer fund their own home improvement project.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: jpacelt on August 21, 2016, 12:39:06 PM
I'm kind of half way in between . I usually have a contract, always if it is a new customer. My contracts are much simpler, although I do try to list all components of a job.  I would feel a bit taken back, if I were a customer of mine, with the adversarial tone of some of the parts of the above contract.
  But if your relationship with the client becomes adversarial, it is needed.
And I also think there is a difference in a 1 or2 guy shop , where the client has the person who they originally talked to, who comes and does the look and wrote the bid, and then shows up to do the work.  Much different than a biz with a different guy for each stage. Much more personal.  And it's harder to stiff someone your more personal with. Not impossible, harder.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: Painter_paul1 on December 19, 2016, 09:20:26 PM
A lot of the dialogue and information is seriously misguided. Guys, get licensed, get insured, and get contracts. No telling your customers that "your lawyer made you" this is silly. Be professional.
Title: Re: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: gking707 on September 30, 2017, 12:27:52 AM
No Contract = No LIEN for lack of payment!
Title: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: Joyceufpf on October 09, 2017, 04:29:06 AM
It is an excellent variant
Title: Excellent Job Contract
Post by: Cherylgvzm on October 12, 2017, 07:47:30 AM
I congratulate, the excellent answer.